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Graywolf_59
05-16-2005, 03:38 PM
Decide for yourself on this article!Is is a slump by our Star or is he hurting?

http://sportsline.com/nba/story/8475695

Hicks
05-16-2005, 04:47 PM
It made me raise an eyebrow, so to speak. I hadn't really looked at or considered his numbers since he returned a month or so ago. But the article spells it out pretty cleary: This isn't the JO we saw after his return in January. If that JO were here right now, perhaps he would be getting held to a game, statistically speaking, that right now we'd HOPE he would get on a good/great night.

I have to admire his refusal to blame the shoulder, but this article is probably right; something isn't right here.

Bball
05-16-2005, 05:45 PM
"Reggie Miller's over-the-hill masonry"

That was harsh....

-Bball

Kegboy
05-16-2005, 08:45 PM
Yeah, I thought it was a bit much that people were writing off O'Neal, obviously forgetting how good he was playing pre-injury (both his and Tinsley's).

Unclebuck
05-16-2005, 08:52 PM
Conrad said that J.O stayed after practice well over an hour today to work on his shooting

Graywolf_59
05-17-2005, 12:13 PM
They showed JO working on his shot after practice on the news last nite.......showed him shooting mid range jumpers!

Since86
05-17-2005, 12:32 PM
JO hasn't said that his shoulder is as good as this guy wants to portray. I remember him talking about his shoulder wouldn't get above 70-80% but it couldn't get any worse either, so he decided he would play.

I can't believe this writer is complaining that a player isn't taking the easy way out and blaming a horrible game on an injury. JO needs to work the paint, not work the excuses.

Hicks
05-17-2005, 12:38 PM
Side thought: The way this series has gone makes me further believe the Celtics were intentionally going for our players' injuries. Notice how JO has not ONCE that I can think of grabbed his shoulder in pain? Could it be because the other team isn't TRYING to hammer it now? I think so. Thank you Pistons for being above that trash. I don't believe JO's healed so much on his own in two weeks, that he's gone from constantly having noticable trouble to not so much now. I think the Celtics were gunning for it, and the Pistons are not.

Unclebuck
05-17-2005, 12:44 PM
Side thought: The way this series has gone makes me further believe the Celtics were intentionally going for our players' injuries. Notice how JO has not ONCE that I can think of grabbed his shoulder in pain? Could it be because the other team isn't TRYING to hammer it now? I think so. Thank you Pistons for being above that trash. I don't believe JO's healed so much on his own in two weeks, that he's gone from constantly having noticable trouble to not so much now. I think the Celtics were gunning for it, and the Pistons are not.


Larry Brown would not do something like that. Apparently Doc Rivers wuld and did.

Bball
05-17-2005, 01:21 PM
I remember discussions in the past that JO's shooting percentage was low for a post player. So exactly how bad is he slumping compared to last year (10 percentage points?)?

Also, what was JO shooting just in the couple of weeks prior to the shoulder injury? My feeble memory is that he was already slumping but whether it was this bad I don't know.

My point... Maybe there is more, or something else, besides the shoulder at play here. It's at least worth a look. The shoulder might simply be the easy answer, not necessarily the correct one.

-Bball

naptownmenace
05-17-2005, 01:35 PM
I remember discussions in the past that JO's shooting percentage was low for a post player. So exactly how bad is he slumping compared to last year (10 percentage points?)?

Also, what was JO shooting just in the couple of weeks prior to the shoulder injury? My feeble memory is that he was already slumping but whether it was this bad I don't know.

My point... Maybe there is more, or something else, besides the shoulder at play here. It's at least worth a look. The shoulder might simply be the easy answer, not necessarily the correct one.

-Bball

Nope. It's easily the shoulder.

I've dislocated my shoulder before (twice actually) and it takes a really long time to "get right". A player doesn't go from stud to dud, shooting-wise, this drastically.

Los Angeles
05-17-2005, 02:10 PM
Side thought: The way this series has gone makes me further believe the Celtics were intentionally going for our players' injuries. Notice how JO has not ONCE that I can think of grabbed his shoulder in pain? Could it be because the other team isn't TRYING to hammer it now? I think so. Thank you Pistons for being above that trash. I don't believe JO's healed so much on his own in two weeks, that he's gone from constantly having noticable trouble to not so much now. I think the Celtics were gunning for it, and the Pistons are not.
I totally stopped looking for this, mostly because it just went away just like you described.

:brilliant

naptownmenace
05-17-2005, 02:15 PM
I keep getting the feeling that if the Pacers are able to get two normal, pre-injury performances from Jermaine they could win this series in 6 games.

ChicagoJ
05-17-2005, 02:26 PM
I remember discussions in the past that JO's shooting percentage was low for a post player. So exactly how bad is he slumping compared to last year (10 percentage points?)?

Also, what was JO shooting just in the couple of weeks prior to the shoulder injury? My feeble memory is that he was already slumping but whether it was this bad I don't know.

My point... Maybe there is more, or something else, besides the shoulder at play here. It's at least worth a look. The shoulder might simply be the easy answer, not necessarily the correct one.

-Bball


I think the only other reasonable alternative was his inability to work on his post game last summer while his knee was recovering.

He hasn't yet learned how to carry 260 lbs. into the post, because he really hasn't been healthy for more than a few weeks since last May. Although in another thread everyone wants him to throw that weight away without even giving it a chance.

In some respects, he's still paying the price for three straight summers on the national team with a break.

Give him a summer without recuperating from an injury or a commitment to play on the national team and I think you'll see JO play like a beast.

Bball
05-17-2005, 02:30 PM
Give him a summer without recuperating from an injury or a commitment to play on the national team and I think you'll see JO play like a beast.

IOW... not this summer either as he'll be recuperating from the shoulder injury...

:(

-Bball

ChicagoJ
05-17-2005, 02:36 PM
IOW... not this summer either as he'll be recuperating from the shoulder injury...

:(

-Bball

I'm split on that...

He's healthy enough to be back on the court now, whereas when he hurt it I figured he'd still be working on his range-of-motion stuff right now. So he's ahead of schedule, as far as I'm concerned.

So yeah, he's still got some rehabbing to do but not so much that he can't - after taking six or eight weeks off to lay on a beach somewhere - begin updating his post game to match his newly-acquired bulk and leverage by late July or early August.

Peck
05-17-2005, 02:42 PM
Side thought: The way this series has gone makes me further believe the Celtics were intentionally going for our players' injuries. Notice how JO has not ONCE that I can think of grabbed his shoulder in pain? Could it be because the other team isn't TRYING to hammer it now? I think so. Thank you Pistons for being above that trash. I don't believe JO's healed so much on his own in two weeks, that he's gone from constantly having noticable trouble to not so much now. I think the Celtics were gunning for it, and the Pistons are not.

Absolutely 100% correct.

The Celtics were playing dirty all along & no matter what you think of the Pistons you have to agree that they are not & have not once played dirty to try & injure or at least try & hit J.O. or our other players for that matter.

ChicagoJ
05-17-2005, 02:47 PM
Absolutely 100% correct.

-snip- you have to agree -snip-

No wonder you're in last place for "most argumentative." That's no way to influence the voting public.

:buddies:

Unclebuck
05-17-2005, 03:10 PM
My memory is that J.O. shot very well the first 15 games or so when he returned from the suspension, but then some nagging injuries started popping up and he started struggling a little.

So in january he was great, but Feb he slumped a little

Does pacers.com breakdown players stats by month.

Jose Slaughter
05-17-2005, 03:16 PM
I remember discussions in the past that JO's shooting percentage was low for a post player. So exactly how bad is he slumping compared to last year (10 percentage points?)?

Also, what was JO shooting just in the couple of weeks prior to the shoulder injury? My feeble memory is that he was already slumping but whether it was this bad I don't know.

My point... Maybe there is more, or something else, besides the shoulder at play here. It's at least worth a look. The shoulder might simply be the easy answer, not necessarily the correct one.

-Bball

Since I'm bored & have a lot of free time on my hands........

I broke this down to 3 categoies: Pre 11-19, Post 11-19 - Pre Injury, Post injury.

In the 8 games before 1-19 JO was 62-134 for .462

In the games from Dec 25th - March 3rd - 316 of 678 for .466

From April 18th to May 15th - 74 of 204 for .362

Uncle Buck Yes they do. Go to "season splits" & scroll down a little. you'll see 'em.

Unclebuck
05-17-2005, 03:23 PM
Thanks Jose. I'll do that in a minute, but first I went to look at J.O.'s shooting % since he became a Pacer.

Not sure what these mean

2001 - Regular season - 46% - Playoffs 45%
2002 - regular season - 48% - playoffs - 45%
2003 - regular season - 48% playoffs - 47%
2004 - regular season - 43% playoffs - 42% overall and 40% against Pistons
2005 - regular season - 45% playoffs 34%

MagicRat
05-17-2005, 03:28 PM
Thanks Jose. I'll do that in a minute, but first I went to look at J.O.'s shooting % since he became a Pacer.

Not sure what these mean

2001 - Regular season - 46% - Playoffs 45%
2002 - regular season - 48% - playoffs - 45%
2003 - regular season - 48% playoffs - 47%
2004 - regular season - 43% playoffs - 42% overall and 40% against Pistons
2005 - regular season - 45% playoffs 34%

Bring back the Quick!

Bball
05-17-2005, 03:30 PM
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/game_by_game_stats.html

That will show you all games broken down into months and all on one page for easy comparison... altho it doesn't actually do the math for you as to percentages.

He had a couple of decent games in Feb and March (15-23 , 12-22, 8-16) but there is also some 4-15, 9-24 , 7-23, 5-13 stuff going on as well. There was easily a slump in Feb altho you could argue he was coming out of it by the end of the month/start of March when the shoulder injury occured. He was 5-13 March 1st and had 18 points but I would label that one as inconclusive. The next game was the injury and he was 4-7 that game.

-Bball