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View Full Version : Should Foster Sit when we're behind?



McKeyFan
05-16-2005, 01:14 PM
In the press conference, Rick just said he had to sit Foster because they were playiing from behind. But weren't they behind most of game 2 when Jeff had his 20 boards and 14 or so points? Did he not play a big factor in that game when we were behind?

Does anybody have the ability to look at stats to confirm my questions?

P.S. This was a post in a separate thread, but I think its needs special attention. DK seemed to think, intuitively, that defensive stops bring teams back from behind better than more offense. Anyway, Carlisle may sit Foster again, and that would be a shame if stats don't support the strategy.

waterjater
05-16-2005, 01:21 PM
In the press conference, Rick just said he had to sit Foster because they were playiing from behind. But weren't they behind most of game 2 when Jeff had his 20 boards and 14 or so points? Did he not play a big factor in that game when we were behind?

Does anybody have the ability to look at stats to confirm my questions?

P.S. This was a post in a separate thread, but I think its needs special attention. DK seemed to think, intuitively, that defensive stops bring teams back from behind better than more offense. Anyway, Carlisle may sit Foster again, and that would be a shame if stats don't support the strategy.

I didn't check the stats, but the answer to your Title question is an EMPHATIC NO!!!

Mr. Rebound, Garbage points guy should've been IN THAT GAME TO CLEAN UP ALL THE BRICKS WE WERE THROWING UP THERE!! We needed extra possessions and put backs and nobody on our team accomplished that. THAT IS FOSTER's JOB and he should have been in their saving our starters collective asses from that dismal game!

UB was correct, it came down to making shots. We didn't make them and we had nobody in the game who could rebound the misses.

Water

brich
05-16-2005, 01:23 PM
I don't have the stats that you are looking for, but to answer the question in this post: No. Jeff has been a pretty good weapon on both ends of the court during this series. He has created turnovers that have led to points for us, and more importantly, he has been huge in giving us second chance opportunities on offense.

I am surprised that he Rick did not use him more. We shot so poorly that Jeff may have been able to get us some additional opportunities. He also may have been able to get some garbage buckets underneath.

IMO, our offense is at its worse when we grind out isolation plays and have poor ball movement. We are at our best when we are active and we pass the ball. Reggie and Foster are two of our best guys who move without the ball.

WEST
05-16-2005, 02:48 PM
Rick thought the we needed someone on the game that could provide us with some offense. I know I'm not exactly a basketball coach, but doesn't offensive rebounds lead to more points? Doesn't the ability to get desensive rebounds and keep the opponent off the offensive glass produce more points? Did whoever Rick put in for Foster ever score jack *****?

I know that I'm sounding sarcastic and second guessing RC a little bit, but he was clearly out coached by LB. RC can't hit shots for them, I understand that, but we haven't shot well this whole series and still managed to win twice. In those wins RC made little adjustments that were the difference in the game. I am confident that RC will have a better gameplan in game 6 and the team will do a better job executing.

One more thing. It is impossible for highly paid professional basketball players to shoot so poorly for so long. We are over due for a good shooting game. Look at the Boston series, we shoot so poorly in many of those games and shot the lights out in game 7. In this series we need it before game 7 or there might not be a game 7.

Ragnar
05-16-2005, 03:09 PM
Foster should be starting

ChicagoJ
05-16-2005, 03:12 PM
Foster should be starting

No way. Foster's the perfect backup bigman.

He's playing well now because this role is perfect for him. Why change that?



To the original question: Foster had a chance yesterday, and he didn't really do anything to distinguish himself. Its hard to fault Rick for saying, "yep, the Pistons' adjustment is working" and then trying something different with JJ.

Just because JJ didn't work out well doesn't mean that Jeff should've gotten those minutes back.

Peck
05-16-2005, 03:47 PM
I'm hesitant to say anything because it's just gonna seem like I was sitting waiting for his first game where he wasn't outstanding to sit back & say a-ha!

But here goes. I said this in the past so feel free to go back to some of the posts I had with U.B. about Jeff & make sure I am not making this up.

But Jeff, once he is figured out, can be neutralized. All it takes is putting a player on him with the sole intent of keeping him out of the box area. When I said he was useless vs. Detroit in the past it was because he was a starter & they dedicated players to keeping him off of the glass & it worked last year. Since he wasn't a starter they didn't key on him this year & it burned them.

Now before we all go having a stroke over what I am saying I intend the above to be a huge compliment. Jeff forces them to adjust to him & that makes other teams adjust their game plan.

Jeff didn't have it going yesterday for two reasons.

1. They were keyed on him from the min. he came in the game.

2. Carlisle didn't give him enough time to get going.

Graywolf_59
05-16-2005, 03:55 PM
I didn't check the stats, but the answer to your Title question is an EMPHATIC NO!!!

Mr. Rebound, Garbage points guy should've been IN THAT GAME TO CLEAN UP ALL THE BRICKS WE WERE THROWING UP THERE!! We needed extra possessions and put backs and nobody on our team accomplished that. THAT IS FOSTER's JOB and he should have been in their saving our starters collective asses from that dismal game!

UB was correct, it came down to making shots. We didn't make them and we had nobody in the game who could rebound the misses.

WaterHere's your Stat sheet:
<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="bg0away" align="left"><td class="bg0away" colspan="8">Detroit Pistons</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td class="bg1" align="left">STARTERS</td><td class="bg1" align="right">M</td><td class="bg1" align="center">FG</td><td class="bg1" align="center">FT</td><td class="bg1" align="right">TR</td><td class="bg1" align="right">A</td><td class="bg1" align="right">PF</td><td class="bg1" align="right">PTS</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">R. Hamilton (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/139069), SG</td><td align="right">45</td><td align="center">6-16</td><td align="center">1-1</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">7</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">13</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">C. Billups (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6480), PG</td><td align="right">40</td><td align="center">10-20</td><td align="center">8-8</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">29</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">T. Prince (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/307853), SF</td><td align="right">40</td><td align="center">2-8</td><td align="center">2-2</td><td align="right">10</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">7</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">R. Wallace (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6837), PF</td><td align="right">39</td><td align="center">8-20</td><td align="center">1-1</td><td align="right">12</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">17</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">B. Wallace (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6835), C</td><td align="right">29</td><td align="center">3-8</td><td align="center">0-1</td><td align="right">10</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">6</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td class="bg1" align="left">BENCH</td><td class="bg1" align="right">M</td><td class="bg1" align="center">FG</td><td class="bg1" align="center">FT</td><td class="bg1" align="right">TR</td><td class="bg1" align="right">A</td><td class="bg1" align="right">PF</td><td class="bg1" align="right">PTS</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">A. McDyess (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6690), PF</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="center">3-8</td><td align="center">6-7</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">12</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">L. Hunter (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6626), SG</td><td align="right">12</td><td align="center">1-2</td><td align="center">0-0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">3</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">C. Arroyo (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/275655), PG</td><td align="right">12</td><td align="center">1-2</td><td align="center">0-0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">2</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">R. Dupree (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/436684), SF</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="center">0-0</td><td align="center">0-0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">D. Ham (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6600), SF</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="center">0-0</td><td align="center">0-0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td colspan="1" align="left">E. Campbell (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6506), C</td><td colspan="7" align="center">Did Not Play</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td colspan="1" align="left">D. Milicic (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/400561), PF</td><td colspan="7" align="center">Did Not Play</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td class="bg4" align="left">Totals</td><td class="bg4" align="right"> </td><td class="bg4" align="center">34-84</td><td class="bg4" align="center">18-20</td><td class="bg4" align="right">47</td><td class="bg4" align="right">22</td><td class="bg4" align="right">3</td><td class="bg4" align="right">89</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td colspan="2" class="bg4" align="left"> </td><td colspan="1" class="bg4" align="right">40.5%</td><td colspan="1" class="bg4" align="center">90.0%</td><td colspan="4" class="bg4" align="center"> </td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td colspan="8" class="bg4" align="center">Complete Box Score (http://sportsline.com/nba/gamecenter/boxscore/NBA_20050515_DET@IND)</td></tr></tbody> </table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="bg0home" align="left"><td class="bg0home" colspan="8">Indiana Pacers</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td class="bg1" align="left">STARTERS</td><td class="bg1" align="right">M</td><td class="bg1" align="center">FG</td><td class="bg1" align="center">FT</td><td class="bg1" align="right">TR</td><td class="bg1" align="right">A</td><td class="bg1" align="right">PF</td><td class="bg1" align="right">PTS</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">S. Jackson (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/154572), SF</td><td align="right">40</td><td align="center">6-13</td><td align="center">9-10</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">23</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">J. O'Neal (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6724), PF</td><td align="right">38</td><td align="center">4-15</td><td align="center">2-4</td><td align="right">13</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">10</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">R. Miller (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6700), SG</td><td align="right">36</td><td align="center">2-6</td><td align="center">3-3</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">7</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">J. Tinsley (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/240313), PG</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="center">7-15</td><td align="center">3-5</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">17</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">D. Davis (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6536), PF</td><td align="right">22</td><td align="center">2-3</td><td align="center">2-2</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">6</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td class="bg1" align="left">BENCH</td><td class="bg1" align="right">M</td><td class="bg1" align="center">FG</td><td class="bg1" align="center">FT</td><td class="bg1" align="right">TR</td><td class="bg1" align="right">A</td><td class="bg1" align="right">PF</td><td class="bg1" align="right">PTS</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">A. Johnson (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6635), PG</td><td align="right">21</td><td align="center">0-6</td><td align="center">1-2</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">1</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">J. Jones (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/400555), SF</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="center">2-5</td><td align="center">0-0</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">5</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">F. Jones (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/307841), SG</td><td align="right">16</td><td align="center">1-4</td><td align="center">0-0</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">2</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">J. Foster (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/139063), C</td><td align="right">12</td><td align="center">1-1</td><td align="center">1-2</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">3</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">A. Croshere (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6524), SF</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="center">1-2</td><td align="center">0-0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">2</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">E. Gill (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/205101), SG</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="center">0-0</td><td align="center">0-0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td colspan="1" align="left">S. Pollard (http://sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6744), C</td><td colspan="7" align="center">Did Not Play</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td class="bg4" align="left">Totals</td><td class="bg4" align="right"> </td><td class="bg4" align="center">26-70</td><td class="bg4" align="center">21-28</td><td class="bg4" align="right">41</td><td class="bg4" align="right">14</td><td class="bg4" align="right">5</td><td class="bg4" align="right">76</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td colspan="2" class="bg4" align="left"> </td><td colspan="1" class="bg4" align="right">37.1%</td><td colspan="1" class="bg4" align="center">75.0%</td><td colspan="4" class="bg4" align="center">
</td></tr></tbody> </table>

Unclebuck
05-16-2005, 03:58 PM
Depends why we're behind. If it is because our defense and rebounding then No

If it is because we can't hit a shot and the other team is flooding the lane and making us shoot outside shots, then Yes

ChicagoJ
05-16-2005, 04:07 PM
Depends why we're behind. If it is because our defense and rebounding then No

If it is because we can't hit a shot and the other team is flooding the lane and making us shoot outside shots, then Yes


Not sure I follow you. Presumably, in either scenario we're behind because Jeff hasn't been in the game. If we're behind because we can't put the ball in the basket, then you want to put Jeff in the game? But if we're behind because we're not defending/ rebounding then you want leave Jeff on the bench?

I don't think that's what you mean, and if it actually is what you mean then I disagree 100%.

Flip it around, if Jeff has been in the game and we're behind because we can't put the ball in the basket, I'd sit Jeff. And if Jeff has been in the game and we're behind becasue we're not defending/ rebounding then I'd have to ask one more question - how's Jeff doing at getting to the glass. Because if the other team has keyed in on him, I'd just sit him down because he can be neutralized. If not, I'd leave him in and hoped it got better soon.

DisplacedKnick
05-16-2005, 04:37 PM
I put Jeff in the game - and leave him in for a while anyway, because he makes things happen. When a team gets stagnant and things aren't happening, sometimes you need that energy guy to come in and stir things up.

I don't think you need to get overly technical about it. Now granted, Jeff didn't get a lot done when he was in - but he also got his hands on two balls (no jokes please!) off the offensive boards that nobody else would have, even though Detroit eventually came up with the ball - once Jeff was the middle of a Wallace sandwich when that happened. No guarantees that he makes a difference, but I'd think you'd give him at least 20 minutes to find out - he didn't get any less done than some guys who played 35.

Hicks
05-16-2005, 04:40 PM
Jay I think UB means it the opposite of how you read it, and in fact you two think the same thing (here).

ChicagoJ
05-16-2005, 05:14 PM
Jay I think UB means it the opposite of how you read it, and in fact you two think the same thing (here).

:cool:
Well, that's why I was clarifying. This was one aspect that I thought we'd agree, and I was scratching my head when I read his post.

McKeyFan
05-16-2005, 06:05 PM
DK asks us not to crack a homo joke--and then mentions a Wallace sandwich.

McKeyFan
05-16-2005, 06:08 PM
Here's your Stat sheet:

That's not the stat we need. We need to know if we caught up when Foster was in or out of the game--game 2.

ImCrazyB
05-16-2005, 06:11 PM
If Jermaine keeps playing how he is, I think we need to run with a team of DD, Foster, SJax, Reggie, and Tinsley..Just let Reggie and SJax run wild on screens from DD and Foster...They set much better picks then JO does anyways. And if that doesn't work just let Tinsley create his own shot and see if DD and Foster can clean up on the boards.

Unclebuck
05-16-2005, 08:49 PM
Sorry, if I confused you, but I agree with you Jay.

Although if I'm being honest I tend to want Jeff on the floor as much as possible. But I understand why there are times when the pacers trail and need offense and that Jeff just can't play.

Side note: I think there is something wrong with me lately, I can't write very well anymore. I'm being serious

Kegboy
05-16-2005, 09:11 PM
Sorry, if I confused you, but I agree with you Jay.

Although if I'm being honest I tend to want Jeff on the floor as much as possible. But I understand why there are times when the pacers trail and need offense and that Jeff just can't play.

Side note: I think there is something wrong with me lately, I can't write very well anymore. I'm being serious

Here's the period you left off at the end. "."

I think you better go see a doctor. Maybe you're having an aneurism or something. It has been going on for a while.

Or, perhaps you're trying to throw the MVP race, because Peck is blackmailing you with pictures of Ron doing very bad things.