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Will Galen
05-13-2005, 11:26 PM
http://sports.excite.com/news/05132005/v0027.html

Stern Greeted With Boos in Indiana
May 13, 9:06 PM (ET)

By MICHAEL MAROT
INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - NBA commissioner David Stern wanted to talk about the future Friday. Indiana Pacers fans wouldn't let him forget the past.

Stern was greeted by a chorus of boos in his first trip to Indianapolis since the Nov. 19 brawl in Detroit and the resulting season-long suspension of Pacers forward Ron Artest.

Stern did his best to look ahead - saying before Game 3 of the Eastern Conference semifinal series between Detroit and Indiana that he expected Artest to play next season. The commissioner also expressed disappointment that a new collective bargaining agreement is not yet in place.

"Both sides know what's at stake, and we'll see what happens from here," Stern said. "Obviously, I would have liked to be able to report that we had a deal, but we don't. I'm disappointed that we don't."

The two sides are expected to meet again Tuesday.


Many of the questions for Stern were about Artest, who was suspended for the rest of the season after charging into the stands and fighting with fans in Detroit.

Clearly, there was concern about fan reaction to Stern's appearance.

Sitting three rows from the playing floor and near midcourt, Stern was surrounded by security guards. He was never introduced over the public address system, nor was he shown on the big-screen televisions inside Conseco Fieldhouse.

Still, fans made their thoughts known. When he walked across the court at halftime, there was chorus of boos. When he returned about 15 minutes later, the boos grew even louder.

"I'm sure the crescendo will build, but I assume it will just be about the officiating," Stern joked before the game.

Stern said he never seriously considered reducing Artest's suspension. Instead, he said league officials have met regularly with the league's 2004 defensive player of the year.

In fact, Stern said Artest appeared to be a "very gentle person" in his most recent televised interview.

Artest has now missed 83 games, including the playoffs, and has lost about $5 million in salary.

"I did have to officially say no," Stern said. "The report is, and I believe it firmly, that he is doing everything that we have asked him to do and he's going to be back with us next year."

Stern did appear to agree with Pacers fans on one thing - whether 39-year-old Reggie Miller should return for a 19th season in Indiana. Miller has announced he will retire at the end of the season, although Stern thinks Miller should reconsider.

"He's had a great year, and I'm going to miss him greatly," Stern said. "In addition to everything he does on the court, off the court he's been kind of a role model for other players with respect to the way he carries himself, the way he practices, the way he's professional about the game, and that's very important for this league."

ABADays
05-13-2005, 11:36 PM
Short, fat, Napoleonic basturd really had some balls coming here.

See, you really can trick those asteriks.

Will Galen
05-13-2005, 11:42 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/14/sports/basketball/14pacers.html?ex=1116648000&en=37101f4e02e3d040&ei=5043&partner=EXCITE

More from Stern.

N.B.A. Commissioner David Stern made his first playoff trip to Indiana this season, and he revisited the heavy suspensions he imposed for the Pacers-Pistons brawl, most notably Ron Artest's punishment. Stern said he ultimately turned down a request for reinstatement by the Pacers. "Along the way, I said I'd never say never, but I never gave it any serious consideration," Stern said before the game. "I did have to officially say no." By terms of the agreement to be reinstated for next season, Artest had to undergo league-supervised psychological counseling. "We have people on our staff that are meeting with him regularly and report back," Stern said. "And the report is - and I believe it firmly - that he's doing everything that we asked him to do and he'll be back next year. He'll be automatically reinstated."

DisplacedKnick
05-13-2005, 11:50 PM
The booing was great! I missed the first time - was getting beer - but caught the second one. Took me a second to figure out what it was about. Pretty funny.

Unclebuck
05-13-2005, 11:51 PM
I did not boo at all.

Lord Helmet
05-14-2005, 12:06 AM
I never saw him. People were talking about him around us. I didn't think he was there.

Mr. Pink
05-14-2005, 12:09 AM
I booed each time. I got to CFH about an hour before the game started so I was down there watching JO and S-Jax shoot around. David Stern is sooo damn tiny. What is he? 5' 6?

A lot people booed him then too. I was pointing at him talkin about him to one of my friends and I am pretty sure he saw me. GOOD! Can't even let Artest attend the games? That's bullSH*T!

ChicagoJ
05-14-2005, 12:22 AM
I put the binoculars on Stern at halftime. And after he finished his interview on WIBC, he went back to his seats to a half-hearted chorus of boos, Ronnie Nunn sat down next to him.

Then I got nervous. I kept watching for Nunn to send 'hand signals' to the officials. I tried to get MR's attention to take photographic evidence of 'the conspiracy theory'.

I also found Pete Vecsey with the binoculars. He was sitting with Mel Daniels in the northwest tunnel and surrounded by Pacemates. :laugh:

I've also gotta say that I'm really disappointed in Dan Crawford tonight. He blew a lot of calls. But with Nunn and Stern in the house, he was probably nervous...

bmac
05-14-2005, 12:33 AM
Stern will not be commisioner for too much longer. He is too way demonstrative......adios,via con huevos........jerk.

grace
05-14-2005, 12:42 AM
I booed each time.

I booed when he walked over to be interviewed on the radio. I would have booed when he went back to his seat, but since I was in the rest room the other occupants might have thought I was weird.

Anthem
05-14-2005, 03:48 AM
By terms of the agreement to be reinstated for next season, Artest had to undergo league-supervised psychological counseling.

Interesting. So what does that say about the interview? He's going to counseling but said he's not. I only see two options:

1. He's embarrassed to be in counseling and doesn't want people to know.
2. He's holding that information tight for legal reasons.

heywoode
05-14-2005, 03:49 AM
Stern will not be commisioner for too much longer. He is too way demonstrative......adios,via con huevos........jerk.

I wish I could share your optimism.....

ChicagoJ
05-14-2005, 10:25 AM
Interesting. So what does that say about the interview? He's going to counseling but said he's not. I only see two options:

1. He's embarrassed to be in counseling and doesn't want people to know.
2. He's holding that information tight for legal reasons.

3. He lied. :shrug:

able
05-14-2005, 10:32 AM
3. He lied. :shrug:
4, all and none of the above.

He was asked if he was in counseling. i.e. PRESENT TENSE
He HAD counseling i.e. past tense.

He Might still receive training of sorts or have evaluations, but neither constitutes counseling as such.

Anthem
05-14-2005, 12:08 PM
Well, 3 doesn't preclude 1 or 2, which are both motives for #3.

But I agree with able, and that's a good catch. It's by far the easiest solution. Occam strikes again!

SycamoreKen
05-14-2005, 12:20 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/14/sports/basketball/14pacers.html?ex=1116648000&en=37101f4e02e3d040&ei=5043&partner=EXCITE

More from Stern.

Stern said he ultimately turned down a request for reinstatement by the Pacers. "Along the way, I said I'd never say never, but I never gave it any serious consideration," Stern said before the game. "I did have to officially say no." ]

I think he waited so long on purpose to do this when he did. It was almost like he wanted to give hope when he really had no plan in doing so. That shows the kind of person he really is.

indygeezer
05-14-2005, 12:30 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/14/sports/basketball/14pacers.html?ex=1116648000&en=37101f4e02e3d040&ei=5043&partner=EXCITE

More from Stern.

N.B.A. Commissioner David Stern made his first playoff trip to Indiana this season, and he revisited the heavy suspensions he imposed for the Pacers-Pistons brawl, most notably Ron Artest's punishment. Stern said he ultimately turned down a request for reinstatement by the Pacers. "Along the way, I said I'd never say never, but I never gave it any serious consideration," Stern said before the game. "I did have to officially say no." By terms of the agreement to be reinstated for next season, Artest had to undergo league-supervised psychological counseling. "We have people on our staff that are meeting with him regularly and report back," Stern said. "And the report is - and I believe it firmly - that he's doing everything that we asked him to do and he'll be back next year. He'll be automatically reinstated."

AUTOMATICALLY REINSTATED??? Hmmm somebody carve those words in stone. They may be held in evidence if he doesn't live up to his words. I thought he had said in the past that ROn would have to apply and they would consider it before next season but that it wouldn't be automatic??

Hmm a little back-peddaling?

grace
05-14-2005, 12:50 PM
All they have to do is say he didn't do what they said. It doesn't help that Ron said in the interview that he wasn't getting counseling.

Anthem
05-14-2005, 01:07 PM
AUTOMATICALLY REINSTATED??? Hmmm somebody carve those words in stone. They may be held in evidence if he doesn't live up to his words. I thought he had said in the past that ROn would have to apply and they would consider it before next season but that it wouldn't be automatic??

Hmm a little back-peddaling?

Absolutely. He's looking for some "nice guy" karma. Not going to happen.

DisplacedKnick
05-14-2005, 02:19 PM
AUTOMATICALLY REINSTATED??? Hmmm somebody carve those words in stone. They may be held in evidence if he doesn't live up to his words. I thought he had said in the past that ROn would have to apply and they would consider it before next season but that it wouldn't be automatic??

Hmm a little back-peddaling?

Might just be semantics. When I go to BMV to renew my license it's an automatic approval - but I still have to go there and fill out the form.

Ron probably still has to officially apply for reinstatement but it sounds like he's saying that's just a technicality.

SoupIsGood
05-14-2005, 02:43 PM
4, all and none of the above.

He was asked if he was in counseling. i.e. PRESENT TENSE
He HAD counseling i.e. past tense.

He Might still receive training of sorts or have evaluations, but neither constitutes counseling as such.

Too bad he proceeded to respond in mostly past tense.


Artest: "I'm not receiving counseling. At the same time, I'm improving myself. I had a lot of time to think and reflect on my season. I had a lot of time to find ways to improve myself. If you think about it, when you are playing a profession season, more like the NBA season, I had about six months off. You never get that much time, especially if it's in a championship in June, you get two months off. You never get that time with your family. You never get that time to think about how you want your life to go. I had six months, you could say two NBA seasons if you want to get technical with it, to sort of improve myself and think about how I can get my life better. How can I make my life change for the positive? And I had that much time to think about it."

Sure, it's possible, but he implies here that he never had counseling, and isn't now. Rather, he has spent his time improving from within.

He just didn't want to admit to it, and I don't fault him for it at all.

Kegboy
05-14-2005, 03:17 PM
At halftime, I was tempted to try and start a "We Want Ron" chant, but I didn't.

Yes, David Stern is that short. 5'6" might be a stretch. And, for the record he had 8 security guards on him, easily more than were in the entire Palace on November 19th. :rolleyes:

Anthem
05-14-2005, 03:22 PM
Too bad he proceeded to respond in mostly past tense.

What? Everything is in the past tense except for the statement about counseling, where he says he is not receiving counseling. With everything else in the past tense, it makes a pretty convincing argument for able.

SoupIsGood
05-14-2005, 03:44 PM
What? Everything is in the past tense except for the statement about counseling, where he says he is not receiving counseling. With everything else in the past tense, it makes a pretty convincing argument for able.





... and then he continues to ramble on about what he's done, not is doing, to improve on his own accord.



Not convincing to me.



He says "I am not recieving counseling." Next, he talks about everything he has done to improve himself.



I think his intent was clear, he wasn't about to admit to any counseling.


Edit- Let's examine-


I'm not receiving counseling. At the same time, I'm improving myself. I had a lot of time to think and reflect on my season. I had a lot of time to find ways to improve myself.



Ron jumps from present to past within these sentences, the first being present, and relating to counseling, and the last two being past, and relating to how he improves himself.

You might have an arguement, if it weren't for the sentence in the middle:

"At the same time, I'm improving myself."

This sentence places his counseling at the same time of said improvement, connecting the two. Considering he continues to talk about his improvement in the past tense, I think it's safe to say that his intent was that he never has counseling.

Ron wasn't playing some word game with us, but if you really want to think he is sly enough, let alone articulate enough, to pull that off, go right ahead.

3ptmiller
05-14-2005, 03:49 PM
BOOOOO!! :devil:

able
05-14-2005, 04:09 PM
... and then he continues to ramble on about what he's done, not is doing, to improve on his own accord.


Not convincing to me.


He says "I am not recieving counseling." Next, he talks about everything he has done to improve himself.


I think his intent was clear, he wasn't about to admit to any counseling.


Edit- Let's examine-



Ron jumps from present to past within these sentences, the first being present, and relating to counseling, and the last two being past, and relating to how he improves himself.

You might have an arguement, if it weren't for the sentence in the middle:

"At the same time, I'm improving myself."

This sentence places his counseling at the same time of said improvement, connecting the two. Considering he continues to talk about his improvement in the past tense, I think it's safe to say that his intent was that he never has counseling.

Ron wasn't playing some word game with us, but if you really want to think he is sly enough, let alone articulate enough, to pull that off, go right ahead.

So while saying he's not articulate enough to deceive you are saying simultaneously that he is lying.

There's a word for that, ok well an expression, called Contradictio in Terminae

He says he IS not receiving counseling, then he explains what his experience and ideas were over the past period, nowhere does he deny having received counseling, nor does he try to lead you astray by what he says.

Why trying to find something he's not articulate enough for to do in the first place, according to you.

Anthem
05-14-2005, 04:20 PM
I think his intent was clear, he wasn't about to admit to any counseling.

....

Ron wasn't playing some word game with us, but if you really want to think he is sly enough, let alone articulate enough, to pull that off, go right ahead.

I'm not sure where you're going with this. I agree that he didn't want to admit to counseling, but I don't have a problem with that. We've explained why he might want that personally or why it might be beneficial from a legal aspect.

What's the alternative? What, exactly, do you think is going on? We've heard from multiple sources (including Pacers brass, Ronnie's father, and Commish Stern) that Ron has undergone the counseling that he was required to, and Ron says "I'm not in counseling" so you think he's... what, exactly?

I can't figure out what point you're trying to prove. Able's explanation is plausible... he isn't currently in counseling. I don't find that hard to believe.

:grumble: Durned rookies. Think they know everything. :flirt:

SoupIsGood
05-14-2005, 06:18 PM
I'm not sure where you're going with this. I agree that he didn't want to admit to counseling, but I don't have a problem with that. We've explained why he might want that personally or why it might be beneficial from a legal aspect.

What's the alternative? What, exactly, do you think is going on? We've heard from multiple sources (including Pacers brass, Ronnie's father, and Commish Stern) that Ron has undergone the counseling that he was required to, and Ron says "I'm not in counseling" so you think he's... what, exactly?

I can't figure out what point you're trying to prove. Able's explanation is plausible... he isn't currently in counseling. I don't find that hard to believe.

:grumble: Durned rookies. Think they know everything. :flirt:



Okay. My post earlier wasn't very clear. Now that I look at it, I think I left out some critical sentences. :-p Eh.

Let me try to make my point again, without all the murkiness:


There were several possibilites listed, earlier in this thread.

One option was something like "He didn't want to admit to counseling," which I believe.

Another (option number four, I believe) suggested that Ron had managed to truthfully answer the question, because of Mr. Gray's use of the present tense in asking the question. Assuming Ron is not currently in therapy, it would have been pretty easy for him to have done so, and escape this question without lying. He actually came very close, if only he would have stopped speaking after his first sentence.

Ron continued past his first sentence, however, and I think you must take that into account, also. It's pretty clear, from what he continued to say, that the message he was trying to communicate was something along the lines of "I am not involved in counseling, nor was I ever. But... since that go over well with my adoring fans, here's what I did to fix things, while I was busy not attending therapy..."

My point is, quite simply, that I don't see option number 4 as plausible, considering what Ron said. If he wanted to play that game, a simple "No, I'm not" would have done.



PS- This is all moot, though, if I am misinterpreting Able's orginal post. It was a bit vague and jumbly-like though... kind of like my sorry excuse for a post earlier. :devil:

Roy Munson
05-14-2005, 06:40 PM
I did not boo at all.

Of course you didn't. Could you BE any more pious?

Anthem
05-14-2005, 07:49 PM
It's pretty clear, from what he continued to say, that the message he was trying to communicate was something along the lines of "I am not involved in counseling, nor was I ever. But... since that go over well with my adoring fans, here's what I did to fix things, while I was busy not attending therapy..."

So, let me get this straight. You're saying that Ron would have lied if he'd been more eloquent, but because he's not a good speaker he managed to tell the truth entirely by accident?

You, my friend, are something else. :laugh:

SoupIsGood
05-14-2005, 10:01 PM
So, let me get this straight. You're saying that Ron would have lied if he'd been more eloquent, but because he's not a good speaker he managed to tell the truth entirely by accident?

You, my friend, are something else. :laugh:

Um, no.

I'm saying he lied, and am debunking the option where he could have told the truth, yet in a deceptive manner.

How is ""I am not involved in counseling, nor was I ever" the truth? The article about Stern above says he has had counseling. All I am saying, is that is what Ron was telling us.

BigMac
05-14-2005, 10:26 PM
After reading that Stern said that Artest was being evaluated psychologically, or undergoing therapy, if Artest has not agreed to disclose it, doesn't that mean that Stern, by telling of his medical (mental) situation, is breaking the anti-medical disclosure laws and Artest can sue him and the NBA for lots and lots of money for talking about a medical (mental) treatment without his consent. Now, I am assuming that the NBA did not ask for permission but I would hope that after he get reinstated, that he sue the NBA for more than his lost salary? Maybe making a mountain out of a mole hill and he may not want to **** the little basturd off (Stern) but I would think he would have a case here. It's none of our business (though many here think it is) as to what medical treatment (mental) he is undergoing. Period.

SoupIsGood
05-14-2005, 10:36 PM
After reading that Stern said that Artest was being evaluated psychologically, or undergoing therapy, if Artest has not agreed to disclose it, doesn't that mean that Stern, by telling of his medical (mental) situation, is breaking the anti-medical disclosure laws and Artest can sue him and the NBA for lots and lots of money for talking about a medical (mental) treatment without his consent. Now, I am assuming that the NBA did not ask for permission but I would hope that after he get reinstated, that he sue the NBA for more than his lost salary? Maybe making a mountain out of a mole hill and he may not want to **** the little basturd off (Stern) but I would think he would have a case here. It's none of our business (though many here think it is) as to what medical treatment (mental) he is undergoing. Period.

Actually, after a second read-through, the psycho therapy bit isn't even Stern's words, it is out of quotations. I hope the writer didn't jump to this conclusion because of Stern saying league officials having been checking with Ron, but it looks like irresponsible journalism to me. Of course, that's nothing new.

Los Angeles
05-14-2005, 10:50 PM
At halftime, I was tempted to try and start a "We Want Ron" chant, but I didn't.

I'd consider that a full-on insult to the Pacers that are actually playing. As if you would be chanting "We want somebody else to play!" or "We don't appreciate you!"

I don't know, maybe I just mean to say that things can be interpreted different ways by different people there.

SoupIsGood
05-14-2005, 11:28 PM
I'd consider that a full-on insult to the Pacers that are actually playing. As if you would be chanting "We want somebody else to play!" or "We don't appreciate you!"

I don't know, maybe I just mean to say that things can be interpreted different ways by different people there.

I took it that way also. I figured Keg was starting to climb up onto the Chicago bandwagon with Jay. :o

McKeyFan
05-14-2005, 11:36 PM
I'm glad he got booed.

UB, why didn't you boo?

Kegboy
05-14-2005, 11:57 PM
I'd consider that a full-on insult to the Pacers that are actually playing.

That's why I'd do it at halftime when they're not out there. And because "**** you you pompous "One Zero" arrogant *** no good piece of ****" doesn't flow as well.

Plus, obviously Reggie wouldn't have a problem considering he begged Stern to let Ron back in on national radio last month. But, hey, if Rick had come out and lectured me that "This is (my) team", then that would be fine, too.

Anthem
05-15-2005, 01:14 AM
How is ""I am not involved in counseling, nor was I ever" the truth? The article about Stern above says he has had counseling. All I am saying, is that is what Ron was telling us.

Except that he didn't ever say "Nor was I ever." You're attempting to show that's what he meant, and maybe he did. The point is, he never said "nor was I ever."

I stand by my original statement. You're saying that Ron would have lied if he'd been more eloquent, but because he's not a good speaker he managed to tell the truth entirely by accident.

SoupIsGood
05-15-2005, 03:59 AM
Except that he didn't ever say "Nor was I ever." You're attempting to show that's what he meant, and maybe he did. The point is, he never said "nor was I ever."

I stand by my original statement. You're saying that Ron would have lied if he'd been more eloquent, but because he's not a good speaker he managed to tell the truth entirely by accident.


Okay. :rolleyes:

Stand by that statement all you want , but it isn't what I was saying, and it makes no sense.

-snip-

Eh. I typed out a further response, but it was nothing I hadn't alluded to already, except for the nice story about orange and grape soda at the end. That was fun. :-p

Anyhow, I'm going to save us both some time here, and snip out my repetitive response, and my soda story. This topic already bores me, I can't imagine how much it is boring you.

-Soup
Slurppp

grace
05-15-2005, 11:30 AM
I'd consider that a full-on insult to the Pacers that are actually playing. As if you would be chanting "We want somebody else to play!" or "We don't appreciate you!"

I don't know, maybe I just mean to say that things can be interpreted different ways by different people there.

I would imagine if the players back in the locker room could have heard a "We want Ron" chant they'd know we were only doing it because Stern was there.

Roy Munson
05-15-2005, 12:36 PM
A better chant would have been "Stern Sucks". That wouldn't have offended any of the Pacer players, and it probably wouldn't have offended many fans....other than Uncle Buck.

grace
05-15-2005, 12:42 PM
A few people in 227 did it, but considering I could barely tell what they were saying I'm sure no one on the playing floor would have understood it either.