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View Full Version : This team has no idea how to grab a team by the throat and squeeze.



Hicks
05-13-2005, 09:59 PM
That collapse to give Detroit the lead was absolutely appauling and sickening, not to mention disturbing.

I'm happy as hell we won, but my GOD did we ever choke that lead away. When we had the lead, we got happy about it, and started playing that ***** "play not to lose" ball full of sluggish offense filled with nothing but isolation and jumpshots, and to make matters worse our defense fell apart. That's to say the least extremely alarming for me.

I really don't know what to think about Sunday afternoon, other than the fact that I'm scared to death. On one hand, Detroit didn't lose big so that MIGHT keep them from having that "we were embarassed, let's emabarass them back!" game, but they also got to see how EASY it is to beat this team, because they played like **** all night, and yet 5 good minutes of play and they come within an inch of beating us despite being down by double digits.

I'm worried as hell right now about Game 4, and the Pacers should be too. They have no killer instinct, and until they do, they will NEVER be champions. They have ONE CHANCE to change their tune on Sunday, but if they don't, this series is practically over. Sunday is it, boys and girls. Do or die. It is our last chance to win this series.

A win gives us 3 chances to beat the champs. A loss, and it's a best of 3 with Detroit having 2 games at home. Good luck with that.

Prove the doubters wrong, Pacers. Prove that once, just ONCE, you can break through, crush the opponent's neck, and prosper. Just once, don't feel satisfied until your opponent is DEAD. TOO MANY TIMES have we been here, only to give it up because we don't have the balls to finish them off. It must stop NOW.

Now more *****, play-not-to-lose ball. Just play to snap their NECK. It's do or die, RIGHT NOW. From 2:30PM Sunday for the next 3 hours, you have to play like your lives depend on it. Now DO IT.

:gopacers:

Jermaniac
05-13-2005, 10:03 PM
Thats what I was saying the whole damn time, Rick was not letting Tins and Reggie to not come back in the game and we where losing the lead. No damn killer instinct, and I said the exact same line you said

"They have no killer instinct, and until they do, they will NEVER be champions."

Tim
05-13-2005, 10:05 PM
Reggie Miller lead Pacers can't handle prosperity. We didn't win this game Detroit lost it.

I am not happy even though we won.

Anthem
05-13-2005, 10:07 PM
I took a different look at it.

You knew the Pistons were going to make one good run in the fourth quarter. That has nothing to do with the Pacers, that's just the Pistons. We all knew it was coming, and it did. The Pistons fought all the way back and got a 1-point lead. And we still won by five.

This team has big brass ones.

brichard
05-13-2005, 10:16 PM
The only thing that gives me hope is the fact that Rip is hurt. No, I don't like to see players hurt. I'd rather get a teams best shot. But, if he isn't at 100% then that is a huge blow to them b/c of their lack of depth. And yes, we fellow Pacer fans have zero sympathy for teams with injuries or suspensions. :)

What bothers me is that the Pistons have pretty much sucked for 2 straight games. In the whole law of averages thing, it doesn't appear that this will continue. However, I don't think the Pacers have played a full 48 minutes. The last 2 games we have "sucked a little less" and Foster has been unbelievable.

We continued to hustle the boards as a team. This makes me giddy.

What a tough night for Jax. Again, I just hope to see him bounce back when we need him most.

PaceBalls
05-13-2005, 10:17 PM
I totally disagree, what did they do in game 2? they grabbed the Pistons by the throat and squeezed.. Or game 7 vs boston?

That being said I think the boys got a bit too complacent. They seemed just content to let the shotclock run down then hope that fade away jumper hits. They hit 3 or 4 fgs in the 4th I think.

Hicks
05-13-2005, 10:18 PM
I took a different look at it.

You knew the Pistons were going to make one good run in the fourth quarter. That has nothing to do with the Pacers, that's just the Pistons. We all knew it was coming, and it did. The Pistons fought all the way back and got a 1-point lead. And we still won by five.

This team has big brass ones.

Oh I see, Detroit MADE us play conservative, MADE us stop passing the ball, MADE us start playing iso-ball EVERY play down the stretch, with NO energy.

brich
05-13-2005, 10:19 PM
It is funny. For the first three and 1/2 quarters of basketball I was as relaxed watching a playoff game that I have been since the beginning. I thought our defense was very good, our hustle/effort plays were there, Detroit couldn't hit water if it fell out of a boat, we got a bunch of turnovers, the officials were giving us the majority of the calls, and the fans were really into it. It wasn't perfection, because Detroit was still able to get off shots that they usually make, but you kind of felt the law of averages were being kind to the Pacers after the Piston's scorching first game shooting.

Then, we had a total and utter collapse. We stopped doing all the things that make us tough to beat. We stopped getting the effort plays, we overdribbled and took to long to get into our offense, we forced bad shots outside of the rhythm of our offense, we turned the ball over, we loosened up our defense, and just absolutely gave Detroit every opportunity to get back in this game. We are fortunate that the referees gave us some life support with the technical foul, Reggie got a few kind calls (to be fair...Rip did too toward the end), and we were fortunate enough to get a few no-calls that could have gone either way.

I thought that Detroit would make a run of course, but I thought that we would make some adjustments. Nope, we started running our ugly "isolation take on the Pistons" offense, and some of our defenders became matadors. IMO, Rick did not utilize his time-outs wisely enough in the fourth quarter. He needs to be able to collectively slap these guys across the face when they start playing that much outside of our offensive and defensive schemes. This isn't all on Rick though, our leadership, particularly our veterans, need to do the same thing. I don't mind giving the guys a play or two to work the kinks out on their own, but we didn't do anything until we had allowed Detroit all the way back into this game.

We did manage to get our mojo back at the very end, but after dominating for so much of the game, it is weird to feel like we just barely dodged a bullet.

Mushmouth
05-13-2005, 10:20 PM
Oh I see, Detroit MADE us play conservative, MADE us stop passing the ball, MADE us start playing iso-ball EVERY play down the stretch, with NO energy.

No, but don't downplay the law of averages. Our big guns shot terribly and we became complacent (agreeing with you). Lets give credit to the fact that their D did screw up our offense in the middle of the 4th.

Also, our big guns didn't shoot well.

Frankly, we still haven't played a solid game. Can we against detroit? I'll take ugly, hanging on wins vs. the Pistons. :cool:

Hicks
05-13-2005, 10:21 PM
I totally disagree, what did they do in game 2? they grabbed the Pistons by the throat and squeezed.. Or game 7 vs boston?

The Pacers' backs were against the wall both times. Game 2 was our best shot at making this a series, and it wasn't until we were already down 10 at halftime that we finally did anything about it. The only reason there was a game 7 was because we choked away game 6 on our own floor, a terrific chance to finish the Celtics off. Our backs were then against the wall, and we pulled it out. You play with fire like that against DET, you're gonna get burnt.

arkman40
05-13-2005, 10:23 PM
I've learned to not be too concerned about trends or lack thereof with this team, except for the one where they won't go away. At this point it's all about surviving and ensuring there is a next game to play.

Stryder
05-13-2005, 10:24 PM
In the NBA, everybody makes a run.

I do agree, though, this Pacers team does not know how to close out a game.

Los Angeles
05-13-2005, 10:25 PM
The only thing that gives me hope is the fact that Rip is hurt. No, I don't like to see players hurt. I'd rather get a teams best shot. But, if he isn't at 100% then that is a huge blow to them b/c of their lack of depth. And yes, we fellow Pacer fans have zero sympathy for teams with injuries or suspensions. :)

What bothers me is that the Pistons have pretty much sucked for 2 straight games. In the whole law of averages thing, it doesn't appear that this will continue. However, I don't think the Pacers have played a full 48 minutes. The last 2 games we have "sucked a little less" and Foster has been unbelievable.

We continued to hustle the boards as a team. This makes me giddy.

What a tough night for Jax. Again, I just hope to see him bounce back when we need him most.
When WE'RE not a full strength, I don't give any team excuses.

TheHotShot31
05-13-2005, 10:26 PM
Jermaine and Jackson should have been the ones squeezing!

BillS
05-13-2005, 10:30 PM
I absolutely agree.

As I said in the game thread, I have _always_ treated a 20-point lead like a tie and other margins in proportion to that.

One thing to remember is that the NBA is a game of runs - momentum really means something in this league. If you look at the trends, there aren't many games that end with a 10-point margin that were a 10-point margin the entire time. They were either 3-4 points and bloated during foul time, or they were 20 points and shrank during garbage time.

The game is also still tilted in favor of the offense. No matter how hard you fight on defense, good shooters will still hit blind shots, draw fouls, etc.

The problem was that we still suffered from our own inability to hit open shots when we could have been pulling away. Then, when Detroit finally found their shot, we were too close for comfort.

The good thing about strong defense is that it sets up your offense.

The bad thing is that if you are completely depending on your defense, you can't do enough damage before the other team manages to finally break through.

I don't think it is "killer instinct" - in fact, the stupid "going for the dagger to put the nail in the coffin" three is what often sends us into an offensive tailspin (allows the defense to collapse because they know we aren't hitting from the perimeter, blah blah blah).

What we need to do is play the same game at 15-points ahead that we would at 5-points ahead. Unfortunately, we (and, I submit, most teams in the league) don't do that.

beast23
05-13-2005, 10:39 PM
I think you take from this that we WON the game. It's 2-1, not 1-2.

Detroit made their run for several reasons.
#1 - Despite our decent defense, they finally began to make a few shots.
#2 - Detroit tightened their defense and began getting the stops.
#3 - We quit penetrating the lane, partially due to Detroit's defense.

But the bottom line is, you take what you are given. We weren't getting into the lane, and we weren't doing a particularly good job of hitting the perimeter jumper, either.

So what do you do? You find a way to get to the line for some freebies. That, we did quite well.

Again, it's 2-1. Take it any way you can get it.

PaceBalls
05-13-2005, 10:40 PM
The Pacers' backs were against the wall both times. Game 2 was our best shot at making this a series, and it wasn't until we were already down 10 at halftime that we finally did anything about it. The only reason there was a game 7 was because we choked away game 6 on our own floor, a terrific chance to finish the Celtics off. Our backs were then against the wall, and we pulled it out. You play with fire like that against DET, you're gonna get burnt.

They let the pistons gain the lead in game 2 with about 6 mins to go. Then they "grabbed the Pistons by the throat and squeezed."

Mushmouth
05-13-2005, 10:42 PM
Hicks, take a look at my avatar- is that what you're talking about?

Hicks
05-13-2005, 10:44 PM
It's not Ben Wallace in the road jersey in that avatar, so it doesn't count. :D

Make no mistake, guys, I'm happy we're up 2-1. It's not about that; I'll always take 2-1 vs 1-2. But the way we played makes me very worried that we're not going to do anything with it, aside from give it away and end up 2-2 heading back to Detroit.

Mushmouth
05-13-2005, 10:51 PM
It's not Ben Wallace in the road jersey in that avatar, so it doesn't count. :D

Make no mistake, guys, I'm happy we're up 2-1. It's not about that; I'll always take 2-1 vs 1-2. But the way we played makes me very worried that we're not going to do anything with it, aside from give it away and end up 2-2 heading back to Detroit.

Is that giving it away tho? I expect Detroit to win game 4 (I've expected them to win every game so far, and that's not going to change). 2-2 is what we WANT. They are the champs, we are the team that breaks down their false confidence with every win. We all know last year was a battle, no different this year. People in this forum and in that locker room are some of the only people that know that Tinsley, Foster and to a certain extent Jermaine are now healthy, and we're EVERY bit as talented as the champs.

If they don't know that by know, shame on them.

Let Rasheed claim the game 4 victory. We'll see - he might be right, but it won't break this team.

Tonight is one thing: a WIN

sixthman
05-13-2005, 10:54 PM
I took a different look at it.

You knew the Pistons were going to make one good run in the fourth quarter. That has nothing to do with the Pacers, that's just the Pistons. We all knew it was coming, and it did. The Pistons fought all the way back and got a 1-point lead. And we still won by five.

This team has big brass ones.

:thankyou:

The other team gets paid too. They have three, maybe four, of the best defenders at their position in the league. They have a starting lineup that is about as it gets. They are the reigning world champions of basketball. Yet we beat them tonight again, after taking their best shot. Get real and enjoy the moment. Nothing is easy in the NBA. It is the outcome that matters. WAHOOO!!!

NorCal_Pacerfan
05-13-2005, 10:55 PM
The Pacers could have easily lost this game tonight. But they did not. JO fouled out, and that could have been a blessing with the way he was shooting in the second half. The fact that we held on counts. Game four will really show us what this team is made of. No one expected the Pacers to even make a series out of this - and yet we have a chance to go up 3-1 at home. I have my criticism of this team, coaching, refs etc. But I can't be down on these guys right now.

Hey, we just went through a seven game series, our guys are tired, JT has only been back for what, 5 games now? We aren't doing to badly. Let's see if we can look at the tape of the fourth quarter. I don't think our guys are going to be happy abut how they won this game. They aren't going to roll over on Sunday. Let's see how it plays out.

Right now I'm loving this series. Foster rules and Reggie's clutch shot finally came tonight.

able
05-13-2005, 10:55 PM
Let's get something out of this game that we are overlooking here:

We did squeeze, with a minute and a half to go, we went up 77-72

Not only that, but with all our hotshots shooting the ball like it was a medicine ball (JO 2-11., Reg 3-11 and Jax 4-17) ALL GAME LONG, we got the goods delivered by Tinsley and Freddie and Jeff and AJ and even Dale.

Our teamdefense stopped a lot of what the Pistons were doing, we had great stops for most of the game, except for a 5 minute stretch in the 4th, after which we rallied and put the game away.

So with BAD shooting, no shots falling whatsoever, our defense carried the win to us.

We know what happened in game 4 against Boston, we know who we are playing now and we will be more alert, also knowing that team defense keeps us in the games.

Detroit on the other hand is licking wounds, they made their run like we did in game 2 (in that game the Pistons had an 18 point lead, like we did in this one) yet they lost game 2; badly, AND they lost game 3 after making up the deficit.

The run woke up the Pacers, they were warned not to get complacent, not even with a big lead, they will come at you.

To think with your offense not rolling, that you can "blow-out" the reigning world champions is silly, those guys closed out the season on a 14-2 run, they steamrolled over Philly, where we had a struggle agains Boston.

What if our offense DOES show up in game 4 and we play the same defense as we did tonight?

As JO said in the press conference, we need to find ways to win the game, if the "big shots" don't score, we are doing that.
As Rick said, JO does a great job on the defensive end, with no worries about his scoring, it will come.

Did you notice Tins' shot falling again, did yo unotice hte great game Fred and Dale had, did you notive howwell JO played defense?
Did you notice we won our first game at home against Det since the ECF game 1 ?

if these guys get in the right frame of mind before game 4..... then start dreaming pleasant dreams, just don't expect you can blow these guys out of town.

SycamoreKen
05-13-2005, 10:57 PM
Jermaine and Jackson should have been the ones squeezing!

I think they were too busy holding their own throats. The run really started when Jax hotfdogged the easy dunk away. Then the next time down the court he pouts because he didn't get a call, follewed by playing crappy defense. JO may have helped by fouling out. I have no idea what he was doing at the end there. They both need to be kneeling at Reggie's feet and thanking him for saving their butts tonight. After watching them ***** anf moan all night I'm never complaining about the refs again. They need to get their game together Sunday and take control.

brichard
05-13-2005, 11:02 PM
I think what Hicks is referring to is that we have no ability to protect a big lead.

Do you think the MJ Bulls or Magic Lakers would have relinquished a 20 pt. lead? I'm sure it happened, but not often. When they smelled blood they kept pouring it on.

There is no such thing as a safe lead with this Pacer team. Thankfully they are extremely resilient, but I'd have slept better if they would have kept that double digit lead throughout the game.

I know we kept some of those leads on the Celtics, but this is a different level. You can't be playing cat and mouse with the world champs.

Hicks
05-13-2005, 11:09 PM
That is what I mean, brichard. What I saw was the Pacers completely shift styles. They totally stopped their attack, and just started playing "protection" ball; playing to NOT lose, rather than playing to WIN. You have to keep playing your offense like you would if it was the third quarter; don't let up; that's just giving them the crack they need to step back into the game. I can live with blowing a lead when we keep playing our game. But we stopped with about 12 minutes left.

Unclebuck
05-14-2005, 12:08 AM
Come on. Good teams are going to make a strong run. That is NBA basketball, I did not see anyhting disturbing, I saw typical playoff basketball.

If you are expecting the Pacers to rollover the Pistons, you are just flat wrong

Hicks
05-14-2005, 12:11 AM
Come on. Good teams are going to make a strong run. That is NBA basketball, I did not see anyhting disturbing, I saw typical playoff basketball.

If you are expecting the Pacers to rollover the Pistons, you are just flat wrong

I'm not surprised; you've gone on record as being a fan of the iso-ball. :-p

Mr. Pink
05-14-2005, 12:23 AM
Pistons were do for a couple of good quarters offensively. What'd they have at the end of the first half? 24 points? I remember seeing the field goal shot, and Detroit was 9 for 30 something. THAT'S HORRIBLE. It came to my mind when someone said that everyonce and a while Detroit has a terrible time of scoring from now and then. It was on full display.

It didn't help that we started to play a little relaxed. When I saw this lead in the first quarter, I knew the Pistons would take the lead sometime. Look what happened in Game 2. We were getting blown out, but we come back to the lead and win. Thank God, we held on for the win tonight. Detroit Pistons are the World Champs. They were going to come back.

Bball
05-14-2005, 12:27 AM
I was most happy with JO when he.... fouled out. He was a drag to the team's offense in the 4th quarter. Make quick reactions with the ball and either go strong to the hoop or pass it out to an open player.

His touches were limited in the 1st quarter and I fully believe that had a lot to do with our early lead. He simply needs to let the game come to him and stop holding the ball and forcing shots... especially fade aways.

There's a reason we went on a win streak when JO was injured. I'm not saying we don't need JO to advance farthest, but we need a 'team player' JO. We don't see enough of -that- JO.

My God, if he would just 'get it' and play the 'right way' we'd be scary good with our heart and determination and the role players surrounding him.

-Don't let this post be misread, I'm VERY happy to be 2-1 right now. I think we have even 'more' in this team and we are going to need it.

-Bball

Mr. Pink
05-14-2005, 12:29 AM
What did JO do tonight? I saw him grab a couple of hard rebounds, but other than that...I d k. He just didn't really effect Detroit's D or even thier O. Nothing special about JO's game stands out to me from tonight.

PaceBalls
05-14-2005, 12:35 AM
I was most happy with JO when he.... fouled out. He was a drag to the team's offense in the 4th quarter. Make quick reactions with the ball and either go strong to the hoop or pass it out to an open player.

His touches were limited in the 1st quarter and I fully believe that had a lot to do with our early lead. He simply needs to let the game come to him and stop holding the ball and forcing shots... especially fade aways.

There's a reason we went on a win streak when JO was injured. I'm not saying we don't need JO to advance farthest, but we need a 'team player' JO. We don't see enough of -that- JO.

My God, if he would just 'get it' and play the 'right way' we'd be scary good with our heart and determination and the role players surrounding him.

-Don't let this post be misread, I'm VERY happy to be 2-1 right now. I think we have even 'more' in this team and we are going to need it.

-Bball

There is more to basketball than just the offensive end. JO's defense this series ALONE makes him invaluable. He mightve gotten some BS calls tonight, but he changes the whole game when he is in there. 2ndly, having JO take shots in the post makes it much more easier to get back defensively.
I understand now why you hate Ron so much... because you can't appreciate a defensive strategy. no offense of course, just callin it how I see it :p


hooray for TEAM PLAYERS ON DEFENSE

DisplacedKnick
05-14-2005, 12:44 AM
bball - you nailed it. The guy behind me was complaining when JO fouled out (that was definitely a foul - the one before was more questionable). I turned around and said that JO hadn't done squat all night and we (remember - pretending to be a Pacer fan!) were better off without him. I really thought the Pacers would go repeatedly to him down the stretch and he hadn't made anything - even the open J's were bricks.

It doesn't happen often but tonight the team was better with Foster and DD on the floor than with JO (had to love Dale's baseline J - and that Foster only tried one).

dobermanpharaoh
05-14-2005, 12:45 AM
That is what I mean, brichard. What I saw was the Pacers completely shift styles. They totally stopped their attack, and just started playing "protection" ball; playing to NOT lose, rather than playing to WIN. You have to keep playing your offense like you would if it was the third quarter; don't let up; that's just giving them the crack they need to step back into the game. I can live with blowing a lead when we keep playing our game. But we stopped with about 12 minutes left.
The pacers do tend to try and sit on a lead,it's quite obvious. It drives my wife crazy! We were both praying that tonight when they got up,they'd keep pouring it on the pistons.WRONG! The pacers got lucky tonight,cuz it almost jumped up and bit 'em in the ***. Detroit is not a team you want to let hang around if possible. And like reggie said,"It's gonna be a bloodbath" for game 4.

waterjater
05-14-2005, 12:48 AM
I also thought the 4th was horrible. We went away from everything that got us the lead and started walking it up and playing what appeared in football terms "prevent defense".

Alls we had to do (like in Game 2) was to keep attacking and make shots. They can't catch us. But we fell back to old habits and ran ISO's and walked it up the court. We had NOBODY in rebound position because they were standing around the 3pt line watching a 1 on 1 play.

This is horrible basketball and we allowed the Pistons to rest as 4 guys weren't guarding anyone.....just waiting for the miss to get the rebound and head down and score against us....AND THEY DID for a about 5 minutes straight. It was AWFUL Basketball! We were dumb lucky too win. The Pistons just through away the ball on late possessions!

I believe Hicks is referring to our history in the Playoffs of having the Drivers seat and FAILING TO WIN A KEY HOME GAME. THIS IS NOW THE TIME TO WIN THAT HUGE HOME GAME!!!!

I remember the Knicks several times and Orlando where we BLEW A BIG HOME GAME some of which would have sent us to the NBA FINALS!! SO, NOW IN REGGIE's FINAL YEAR, IT IS TIME!!!!! TO GET THAT BIG HOME GAME!!

Water

brich
05-14-2005, 12:49 AM
Our defensive lapse has been brought up in this thread a few times. I can always tell when our defense is not at its best. We start "flashing" our help defense, but we don't really follow through. We did that quite a bit in game one, rarely in game two, and for only about 5 minutes tonight. When we start telegraphing poor help defense then it is easy for Detroit to get the ball deep in the paint for easy buckets.

When our team defense is tight then we are a very tough team to score on. We basically force the offense to execute great ball movement, and as long as our rotations/switches are quick, then usually the best shot that Detroit gets is a mid/long range jumpshot with minimum time remaining on the shot clock. We were able to play defense like that most of the game, and thankfully, Detroit was cold from the outside for most of the game. Detroit has not been playing unselfishly on the offensive end which has also been helping us.

I am really surprised that they didn't make better adjustments for this game.

SoupIsGood
05-14-2005, 01:13 AM
I'm sorry, but I refuse to lose confidence because of half a quarter, in a game that we won. Sure, the ending wasn't pretty, but we dominated for the vast majority of the game.

The Pistons are in a much stickier situation than us, right now...

-The Piston's haven't bothered showing up for a combined 6 of the last 8 quarters.

-Larry refuses to play their best passer

-Their entire team isn't showing a lot of heart

-They are down in the series

-Tinsley is quickly becoming their own, personal Rip Hamilton

And what do they have to lean on? Oh yeah, their world champions. That carries weight, no doubt, but that doesn't solve all their problems.

While we are complaining about our team disappearing for half a quarter, imagine what Piston fans are thinking.

If anything, I think that last run gave them a false sense of security.

waterjater
05-16-2005, 03:30 AM
Well, Hicks....I really hoped we were wrong and this team would finally come out and put a stranglehold on the other team. But per usual, we fall flat on our face.

Have we ever won a game where Reggie proclaimed it the biggest in Franchise history?? I'd bet the answer is NEVER!

Water

Unclebuck
05-16-2005, 09:52 AM
I'm not disagreeing with this thread, except to say it happens with every team in the NBA. You hear the same thing over and over again about every team in the NBA. This morning they are talking about the exact same thing in San Antonio and and Phoenix.

In Miami they aren't talking abiut it, but the Wizards are the worst of the 8 teams in this round.

waterjater
05-16-2005, 01:24 PM
Your right UB. Even in Jordan's last title run when we went 7 games with the Bulls (best series ever!!), they couldn't put a choke hold on us and nearly lost in Game 7.

It does happen in the NBA................

Just wish we'd finally get over the hump and deliver!!

Water

Graywolf_59
05-16-2005, 04:04 PM
Not sure if this team know's how to kill a enemy or just Love's to have the Back against the wall B4 they bring it up a notch??I just Hope that Thursday's game @ CFH won't be Uncle Reggie's last game......I want to see Uncle Reggie finish his Career in JUNE vs. the Spur's!?!?Either way......This team has done a (Super) job this year with everything they went thru.....(I'm PROUD of them either way it turn's out).:D:D:D