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Bball
05-12-2005, 01:21 AM
I wanted to come away from it saying "Maybe, just maybe he's going to be different'...

Something just didn't feel right to me. You'd listen for his answer and he just wouldn't go where you'd think he would... or should. Maybe not exactly like Michael Jackson being interviewed but you get the idea. There were better answers than what he was giving.

Also, Artest said he has NOT been attending counseling. I find that hard to believe and if true then I can understand Stern not reinstating him early. That is just something that should be a given in a circumstance like this. If nothing else so that he can see what other people are seeing and hopefully come to terms with it.

I wanted to be impressed with him and what he's done and learned. I wanted to think "He's getting it"...

Now I am not so sure.

-Bball

Ryan
05-12-2005, 01:31 AM
I wasn't sold, either. I WANTED to be so bad. But he didn't do it tonight.

Anthem
05-12-2005, 01:36 AM
I only saw the edited version, but it looked pretty decent.

What was in the longer version that bothered you?

SoupIsGood
05-12-2005, 01:37 AM
Well, one thing is for sure. Ron has come a long way from "Now I wanna promote by CD" Ron, and blabbering-to-ESPN-from-his-car Ron. He was a pretty good interview.

I get the feeling Ron was speaking in honesty in what he said, because a lot of the things he said weren't exactly what someone looking for a PR bump would say.

However, he either hasn't had counseling, or didn't want to admit it. Like I said above, I think he is telling the truth, and hasn't undergone therapy. He clearly thinks he can conquer his demons by himself. Which, considering how hard he has worked to become the player he is, isn't exactly a stretch.

He made a good point in saying that the time he has had off has been like three NBA summers, and has left him a lot of time to progress as a person, or player maybe, he only said 'improve'.

He kept vaguely stating that he was improving, and would continue to improve. While the idea of his on-court game becoming even better is exciting, I wish he would of explained how he had been/is planning on 'improving' the explosions of anger that have threatened his career.

The fact that he was so vague worries me. I think Gray should have followed up on this in the interview, "What exactly have you been doing about your anger problems?" would have been nice. Ron kept dancing with 'improvement'. While it sounds great, I wish he would have been less ambiguous.

Bball
05-12-2005, 01:39 AM
Well, at least it wasn't like the Bob Knight interview with Jeremy Schapp where Knight did himself no favors (even insulted Jeremy by saying he wasn't as good as his dad (or something like that)). IMHO Knight came off as an 'a$$'.

IMHO... Thankfully, it's not something that will haunt the Pacers or serve as distraction for these playoffs.

But I don't see it changing any minds or calming any worries either. Maybe someone else who saw it will have a different take. I doubt DW or Larry B were overly thrilled with it... unless it just thrilled them he didn't create a distraction with it. I doubt he said what they hoped he would say.

-Bball

Anthem
05-12-2005, 01:41 AM
With Ron, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Pacers got him into something that wasn't called "counselling." Ron's enough of a hard-*** that I could see him balking at it. But he's definitely been in some kind of program, and the Pacers (and even the NBA) say he's done everything they've asked him to do. If it's not in an office, does it count as counselling?

I could also see Ron getting counselling but not wanting to admit it on national TV.

Bball
05-12-2005, 01:46 AM
I only saw the edited version, but it looked pretty decent.

What was in the longer version that bothered you?

His thought process just didn't seem to connect all the dots. I hesitate to call some of the answers 'rambling' but they certainly could've been more direct. And I didn't hear answers that you'd think would be the obvious politically correct answers. His answers went places that made me uneasy at times.

To hear him say he is not undergoing counseling (and imply he has not during this period) worries me in and of itself. Even if he is and just doesn't want to admit it, that implies to me that more counseling could be needed. It's not like he's Tony Soprano and needs to keep it under wraps. He needs to let the world know he's willing to leave no stone unturned to get his NBA career back on track.

I would've liked to have heard a heartfelt apology to the fans of the Pacers, the team, and the NBA... But maybe that is expecting too much...

Did I hear him tell people he's forgiven them?

-Bball

SoupIsGood
05-12-2005, 01:48 AM
I wouldn't fault Ron for not wanting to admit he had counseling on National TV.

That's pretty personal, IMO.

Bball
05-12-2005, 01:51 AM
I wouldn't fault Ron for not wanting to admit he had counseling on National TV.

That's pretty personal, IMO.

I would think if counseling is getting thru to him that he'd be comfortable with talking about it by now. Plus, he has to know that it would be a positive for his tarnished image to be involved in counseling at this point.

You could be right tho... That crossed my mind as well.

-Bball

Bball
05-12-2005, 02:01 AM
I must say... He doesn't seem like he's going to be a wearing a "Stuck Fern" T-shirt. He says he loves David Stern (no, he wasn't being sarcastic). He says Stern shook his hand AND gave him a hug. He called him a 'dad' to the NBA and said sometimes he (Stern) has to discipline his children.

-Bball

Anthem
05-12-2005, 02:04 AM
Did I hear him tell people he's forgiven them?

Kinda. I took that as referring to Ben Wallace. They were talking about Ben's foul, then "I forgive... people... for what they did to me. I'm not mad about it."

:shrug:

Suaveness
05-12-2005, 02:21 AM
I saw nothing wrong with it, I was impressed with how he presented himself, and I feel good about it.

aceace
05-12-2005, 02:23 AM
Ron seems to be in a different world than the rest of us. He comes from the projects of NY city where you can never show weakness. Admitting to counseling is liking admitting a weakness. Do you think we could get him on Dr Phil for a little psycho-analyzing. I would say RA could toy with Dr Phils mind.

Harmonica
05-12-2005, 02:25 AM
Oh c'mon, Bball, counseling is overrated. That is not the magic bullet for Ron. It needs to start with him. And whether it was a PR front or not, I certainly got that impression from the interview. And you know how I feel about Ron!

Bball
05-12-2005, 02:44 AM
Oh c'mon, Bball, counseling is overrated. That is not the magic bullet for Ron. It needs to start with him. And whether it was a PR front or not, I certainly got that impression from the interview. And you know how I feel about Ron!

I think you missed my point... My point isn't about the validity of counseling, it is about whether Ron is doing everything he can to get past this. Counseling just seems like one of the steps he'd want to try (or should try). Even if he thinks it won't do him any good, it would certainly serve PR purposes. And he is a person who has a lot of rehab work to do on a lot of fronts and could use whatever good PR he can get. I'm not sure the NBA or the Pacers want to see him taking any shortcuts or skipping any steps. I'd think they would want him to leave no stone unturned. And, in his current position, he should want that as well.

-Bball

Anthem
05-12-2005, 02:53 AM
So what was in the longer version that wasn't in the short one?

It doesn't look like anybody was able to record it...

Bball
05-12-2005, 03:09 AM
So what was in the longer version that wasn't in the short one?

It doesn't look like anybody was able to record it...

I think they are playing it on Sportscenter... apparently all night...
They are playing it in two parts and I think it is the whole thing. I think I've heard it 3 times so far (in the background).

I didn't see the short one so I can't tell you the difference.

-Bball

PaceBalls
05-12-2005, 03:47 AM
I don't know what you guys expected from Ron when he was being asked all those stupid degrading questions by a dicksucker like Jim Gray. At least Ron showed a little poise and tried to answer his questions.

Anthem
05-12-2005, 03:58 AM
You know, image aside, it may be in Ron's best interest to not admit to getting counselling. As in, advice from lawyers.

Until all of the suits have been settled, Ron's lawyers might not want him to say anything that the opposition could use in court. "See, your honor, he was crazy. He even had to undergo counselling to get himself back together. All your salary are belong to us."

sixthman
05-12-2005, 05:14 AM
There is no evidence Ron is unstable or abnormally aggressive with others outside the gym. There is a good chance that most of this anger management stuff is bullcrap.

There is only one thing that matters for Artest: Ron needs to control his competitiveness while in an NBA gym.

Unclebuck
05-12-2005, 08:27 AM
I watched and enjoyed the interview, but like I've said many many times. I don't really pay much attention to what he says

PacerNation
05-12-2005, 08:43 AM
You really can't ask much of Ron in this interview:

a) While I love Ron as a basketball player he is not a very smart person, and I think he gets really self-conscious in interview situations like this. For this reason he has a very hard time expressing himself, and as I said above he's just lacks the ability to be an eloquent player who will impress the media. His vocabulary is lacking and his sentences are really choppy. Ron's Matt Lauer interview after the fight was painful to watch for these reasons.

b) Jim Gray conducted the interview. This turned me off right from the start. I hope I'm not alone in saying I hate Jim Gray more than Walton at times. Jim Gray is perhaps the biggest jerks/idiots in the sports reporting industry.

All said and done the most encouraging thing Ron said was that "the cup wasn't a brick". In this little phrase he admitted that he overreacted and turned a minor situation into a melee. If he understand this much than he's come a long way. There is still work to be done, but I can only hope that losing 5 million dollars sobered him up to reality.

cramerica
05-12-2005, 08:53 AM
I also liked the interview. Ron is not a good speaker but I thought he conducted himself well and was very positive, hell, he even wore a suit and tie.

ABADays
05-12-2005, 08:55 AM
It looked like he was wearing a suit - I was impressed!

Harmonica
05-12-2005, 09:29 AM
You know, image aside, it may be in Ron's best interest to not admit to getting counselling. As in, advice from lawyers.

Until all of the suits have been settled, Ron's lawyers might not want him to say anything that the opposition could use in court. "See, your honor, he was crazy. He even had to undergo counselling to get himself back together. All your salary are belong to us."

I wish people would use spellcheck before they post. It's counseling, not counselling. Aren't you supposed to be a stickler about these things? :-p

grace
05-12-2005, 09:41 AM
I don't know what you guys expected from Ron when he was being asked all those stupid degrading questions by a dicksucker like Jim Gray. At least Ron showed a little poise and tried to answer his questions.

You have to give Ron credit. If they told me the interview was going to be with Jim Grey I would have told ESPN to go :censored: themselves.

Yes, I do think Ron could have done a better job with the interview, but some of us don't think well on our feet. He has to be getting some form of help or he's not going to get back into the NBA. I don't have a problem with him not wanting to admit it publicly. The problem is the general public isn't going to take the time to look under the surface where Ron is concerned.

Reggie4Three
05-12-2005, 09:57 AM
One of the best sports moments in the recent past was when Jim Grey tried to embarass Pete Rose on national television during the World Series in one of the first couple of games and in the next game someone on the Yankees showed up for the post-game interview live on national television and then when Grey asked him the first question the response was something like, "Sorry Jim, because of the way you treated Pete Rose, our team has decided not to interview with you this series." As the Yankee walked away (Chad Curtis maybe?), you could hear Jim Grey pleading, "Bu . . . but . . don't you want to talk about the game-winning hit." :laugh:

During the Artest interview, I thought Grey again tried to play his moral superiority out and came across VERY condescending, like he was talking to a 10-year-old child. I'm surprised the Pacers let him do the inteview or they didn't request someone else to interview him.

Knucklehead Warrior
05-12-2005, 10:00 AM
There is no evidence Ron is unstable or abnormally aggressive with others outside the gym. There is a good chance that most of this anger management stuff is bullcrap. There is only one thing that matters for Artest: Ron needs to control his competitiveness while in an NBA gym.
This sums it up for me. I didn't watch because I don't really care much for Ron or his problems, except for the fact that he has hurt his team. I have a lower opinion of Ron than most and I did not see anything in this thread to convince me he's going to be better this fall for an extended period. However, as Larry says, you don't go through this and not come out a better person for it. So I have hope for Ron and wish his team the best.

As far as Ron going on Dr. Phil, bring it on! That Phil is so ungodly irritating and self-righteous, it would be a good test for Ron. Personally I would pay money to attend that taping in the hopes that Ron would beat him to a pulp. :laugh:

Knucklehead Warrior
05-12-2005, 10:07 AM
What's happened to Ron's new PR firm? Is this the best they can do or are they waiting for the playoffs to be over before kicking into gear? Perhaps this interview was their idea of mellowing and placating the media's obsession with the brawl during this series.

I don't think Ron owes anyone an apology other than his team and that can be in private. He DOES however need to own up to his involvement and take responsibility. I don't care if he does that publicly or not, but so far he doesn't seem to understand he's not the victim. Until that can be clear in his head, he's not making ANY progress.

sixthman
05-12-2005, 11:08 AM
This sums it up for me. I didn't watch because I don't really care much for Ron or his problems, except for the fact that he has hurt his team. I have a lower opinion of Ron than most and I did not see anything in this thread to convince me he's going to be better this fall for an extended period. However, as Larry says, you don't go through this and not come out a better person for it. So I have hope for Ron and wish his team the best.

As far as Ron going on Dr. Phil, bring it on! That Phil is so ungodly irritating and self-righteous, it would be a good test for Ron. Personally I would pay money to attend that taping in the hopes that Ron would beat him to a pulp. :laugh:

Thanks. It seems to me that most have this Artest situation all wrong.

It's Ron competitiveness that gets him in trouble. It has nothing to do with "anger management". Outside the gym he is a laid back guy who regularly chooses to let himself get "used" by friends and family. He does not hang around the locker room threatening fellow players or staff, nor is he a bully, as some would imply. Anger management does not seem to be the issue with Ron; it's the extreme competitiveness inside game situations that is the problem.

Ron was taught to treat sport as combat and, unfortunately, he learned the lesson too well. It's in that area Ron has some unlearning to do.

To those of you who think Ron is mentally inferior, I'd say at least on a basketball court his IQ is twice yours. True, he is obviously not especially verbal. But so what? Many really smart people can barely carrry on a conversation. Verbosity proves nothing.

Given his background, the way Artest has moved upward in society implies to me a good degree of intelligence. There are thousands of 6'7" Americans who never learn to transfer their physical gifts to economic success. Ron is much more than just a big black baller. I don't think there is any doubt, in many areas of intelligence, he is in the 99 percentile.

Anthem
05-12-2005, 11:26 AM
I wish people would use spellcheck before they post. It's counseling, not counselling. Aren't you supposed to be a stickler about these things? :-p

I knew that looked wrong when I posted it.

I shouldn't ever post after midnight.

Anthem
05-12-2005, 11:29 AM
I've got to say I'm surprised by a lot of people talking about how bad Ron is as an interviewee. I gotta say I think that's some crazy talk. He's historically been terrible... this interview, while not up to JO's level, marks a quantum leap forward in my mind.

Since86
05-12-2005, 11:33 AM
I've got to say I'm surprised by a lot of people talking about how bad Ron is as an interviewee. I gotta say I think that's some crazy talk. He's historically been terrible... this interview, while not up to JO's level, marks a quantum leap forward in my mind.

I had to bury my face in my hands when he kept saying "it wasn't cool" though. You can tell he's more of a quiet individual, he just can't express himself clearly.

I did like his comment about being a "little more mature" than he was at 13. I doubt he intended it to be funny, but the little part struck me.

Anthem
05-12-2005, 11:44 AM
I had to bury my face in my hands when he kept saying "it wasn't cool" though. You can tell he's more of a quiet individual, he just can't express himself clearly.

I did like his comment about being a "little more mature" than he was at 13. I doubt he intended it to be funny, but the little part struck me.

Hmm... I only saw the interview posted by haywoode, which evidently isn't the whole thing. Maybe I should see the rest. I don't remember the part you're talking about.

Harmonica
05-12-2005, 11:53 AM
You could tell he was nervous and trying to say the right things. I got a real sense that he's fully aware that his livelihood is in jeopardy and he's trying desperately to salvage his career. He's scared. The fact that he acknowledged that "a plastic cup is not a brick" shows me that he's starting to take responsibility for his actions. And he was contrite and didn't offer too many excuses for what he did. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Although I'm still not sure whether I want him back on this team or not.

Harmonica
05-12-2005, 11:57 AM
I did like his comment about being a "little more mature" than he was at 13. I doubt he intended it to be funny, but the little part struck me.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I didn't read it that way though. He said a couple of times that what happened to him as a kid isn't an excuse for what he does now. That is a HUGE leap in personal growth.

Unclebuck
05-12-2005, 11:58 AM
I did like his comment about being a "little more mature" than he was at 13. I doubt he intended it to be funny, but the little part struck me.



I thoght that was funny also, especially when he put the accent on "little"

dobermanpharaoh
05-12-2005, 12:00 PM
Thanks. It seems to me that most have this Artest situation all wrong.

It's Ron competitiveness that gets him in trouble. It has nothing to do with "anger management". Outside the gym he is a laid back guy who regularly chooses to let himself get "used" by friends and family. He does not hang around the locker room threatening fellow players or staff, nor is he a bully, as some would imply. Anger management does not seem to be the issue with Ron; it's the extreme competitiveness inside game situations that is the problem.

Ron was taught to treat sport as combat and, unfortunately, he learned the lesson too well. It's in that area Ron has some unlearning to do.

To those of you who think Ron is mentally inferior, I'd say at least on a basketball court his IQ is twice yours. True, he is obviously not especially verbal. But so what? Many really smart people can barely carrry on a conversation. Verbosity proves nothing.

Given his background, the way Artest has moved upward in society implies to me a good degree of intelligence. There are thousands of 6'7" Americans who never learn to transfer their physical gifts to economic success. Ron is much more than just a big black baller. I don't think there is any doubt, in many areas of intelligence, he is in the 99 percentile.
I totally agree with you on this. I know everyone will be watching him play next year waiting for the other shoe to drop. I just hope he plays with the same aggressiveness,and doesn't hold back,just that little smidgen to show he has changed. Is smidgen a word?

Diamond Dave
05-12-2005, 12:02 PM
I totally agree with you on this. I know everyone will be watching him play next year waiting for the other shoe to drop. I just hope he plays with the same aggressiveness,and doesn't hold back,just that little smidgen to show he has changed. Is smidgen a word?

It is in movies with bad British accents, and in Indiana.

Anthem
05-12-2005, 12:19 PM
It is in movies with bad British accents, and in Indiana.

My family always said "smidge." :shrug:

blanket
05-12-2005, 12:24 PM
Here's the transcript of the interview:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2058351

Anthem
05-12-2005, 12:43 PM
That interview has nothing about the "it wasn't cool" line. Did they edit the interview, or did they not show it all?

Since86
05-12-2005, 12:44 PM
That's not the full interview.

MistyRo76
05-12-2005, 03:14 PM
The thing with counseling is that people have to be open to it for it to work. If someone is not comfortable with the idea of counseling, they won't get anything from it anyway. And forcing someone to go would probably have worse repercussions. People resent being forced into things.

I thought that Ron sounded very contrite and honest in his interview. And you can definately tell that he really wants to be out there playing right now. It seems that he has really been staying in shape, working on his game and playing as active of a role with the Pacers as his suspension will allow.

NotLosingButWinning
05-12-2005, 05:46 PM
considering this was artest being interviewed, i was somewhat impressed. yes he did ramble a little on some questions but he spoke well for the most part and seemed to be answering the questions as best as he could. i liked when he said how the rest of the team opened their arms to him when he came back and it made it easier for him. also you could tell that he wanted to say more about not being able to go to battle with the team, but for some reason he just said it's not a good feeling. i like what he had to say about what he misses most and what he could be doing to help the team. compared to the last interview we saw w/ artest this one went very well.

PacerMan
05-12-2005, 11:09 PM
Thanks. It seems to me that most have this Artest situation all wrong.

It's Ron competitiveness that gets him in trouble. It has nothing to do with "anger management". Outside the gym he is a laid back guy who regularly chooses to let himself get "used" by friends and family. He does not hang around the locker room threatening fellow players or staff, nor is he a bully, as some would imply. Anger management does not seem to be the issue with Ron; it's the extreme competitiveness inside game situations that is the problem.

Ron was taught to treat sport as combat and, unfortunately, he learned the lesson too well. It's in that area Ron has some unlearning to do.

To those of you who think Ron is mentally inferior, I'd say at least on a basketball court his IQ is twice yours. True, he is obviously not especially verbal. But so what? Many really smart people can barely carrry on a conversation. Verbosity proves nothing.

Given his background, the way Artest has moved upward in society implies to me a good degree of intelligence. There are thousands of 6'7" Americans who never learn to transfer their physical gifts to economic success. Ron is much more than just a big black baller. I don't think there is any doubt, in many areas of intelligence, he is in the 99 percentile.


ROTFLMAO

PacerMan
05-12-2005, 11:12 PM
I've got to say I'm surprised by a lot of people talking about how bad Ron is as an interviewee. I gotta say I think that's some crazy talk. He's historically been terrible... this interview, while not up to JO's level, marks a quantum leap forward in my mind.

Wow, we must have seen different parts...... I only watched a couple minutes. But when they guy asked him 'what did the brawl do to the pacers' and he went off on 2 or 3 tangents. His eyes kind of glazed over and then he ended up answering something completely different.

grace
05-12-2005, 11:22 PM
Wow, we must have seen different parts...... I only watched a couple minutes. But when they guy asked him 'what did the brawl do to the pacers' and he went off on 2 or 3 tangents. His eyes kind of glazed over and then he ended up answering something completely different.

Have you seen a Ron interview before? While I don't think he did that great a job with this interview it is much better than what he usually does.

Having his eyes glaze over (which I didn't notice) is better than what I would have done if I'd been interviewed by Jim Grey. I'd either :puke: or :maniac:

skyfire
05-12-2005, 11:41 PM
couldn't they get anyone better than Jim Grey to interview Ron?
or maybe they figured if Ron went nuts he was expendable :P

Bball
05-12-2005, 11:50 PM
couldn't they get anyone better than Jim Grey to interview Ron?
or maybe they figured if Ron went nuts he was expendable :P

That was one of Ron's first tests to getting back in the NBA. They figure if he could handle ol' Jim then obviously his patience level is growing.

-Bball

Anthem
05-13-2005, 01:02 AM
Interestingly, Jim was on the sidelines when the cup was thrown. Before he was ordered to change his opinion, he was very sympathetic to the Pacer players.

Able's got a link here somewhere.

sixthman
05-13-2005, 08:42 AM
ROTFLMAO

KMA :laugh: