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RWB
05-10-2005, 04:22 PM
Not sure how reliable the "hooplog" site is but they have reports not all is happy in Beantown because of the early exit. It appears Paul Pierce maybe on the shopping block as Ainge trys to build with the young. Going to be an interesting summer again.

Diamond Dave
05-10-2005, 04:33 PM
There isn't anyone on this team I wouldn't trade for him other than JO, which is questionable.

The only reason why I wouldn't be willing to trade JO is that it would leave the Pacers without a low post option thus being like Boston.

Pierce and JO would be killer.

WEST
05-10-2005, 04:58 PM
I don't like the fit of Paul Pierce in Indy. He is a very good player and I respect him, but here are the reasons why he wouldnt fit in. . .

1.) We already have a very good starter at SF (assuming that Artest comes back) and plenty of young talent to back him up.

2.) Besides Artest or JO, there's no single player that Boston would want for PP, and I doubt that the Pacers front office would want to trade several of our young and upcoming players, and/or our big men, they are too good and there are too few of them to trade. (Besides Chroshere or Pollard)

3.) We know that they would wouldn't want to take a chance on Bender, and if they did they would want more players and I doubt our front office would want to give up anybody that Boston would want.

4.) Lastly, most Pacers fans aren't to crazy about PP and it would take alot to win them over. Personally I would like to see Boston keep PP/Walker and get some more better players. They have some good young talent in West/Allen so if they keep improving maybe the Pacers and Celtics could be a good rivalry in the near future.

rel
05-10-2005, 04:58 PM
how 'bout sjax and bender for pierce

their salaries match-up

tins / AJ / gill
pierce / freddie /
ronnie / JJ / cro
JO / foster / cro
dale / harrison / scot

Kstat
05-10-2005, 05:03 PM
why would anyone want bender at this point? It isn't like he's making the league minimum.

SoupIsGood
05-10-2005, 05:07 PM
I would love to have Pierce on this team. His is consisently good in the playoffs, and paired with Jax, we would have two great big-game performers.

However, if Pierce isn't fitting in right now in Boston, I really don't see how Ron ever would. We would probably have to fork over Ron, along with draft picks and young players.

I'm not sure if I would trade Ron to Boston, though. With Artest and Jefferson, they could potentially be a contender in a few years. While I believe the chances of Artest turning things around are minimal, I would hate to play a good Boston club featuring Artest in the playoffs. Ron simply destroys Pierce in a one-on-one match-up.

Diamond Dave
05-10-2005, 05:10 PM
I don't like the fit of Paul Pierce in Indy. He is a very good player and I respect him, but here are the reasons why he wouldnt fit in. . .

1.) We already have a very good starter at SF (assuming that Artest comes back) and plenty of young talent to back him up.

2.) Besides Artest or JO, there's no single player that Boston would want for PP, and I doubt that the Pacers front office would want to trade several of our young and upcoming players, and/or our big men, they are too good and there are too few of them to trade. (Besides Chroshere or Pollard)

3.) We know that they would wouldn't want to take a chance on Bender, and if they did they would want more players and I doubt our front office would want to give up anybody that Boston would want.

4.) Lastly, most Pacers fans aren't to crazy about PP and it would take alot to win them over. Personally I would like to see Boston keep PP/Walker and get some more better players. They have some good young talent in West/Allen so if they keep improving maybe the Pacers and Celtics could be a good rivalry in the near future.

1.) Artest is crazy, we have no reason to believe that he will not return just as crazy. PP is a proven scorer and a go to guy down the stretch. Plus, HE CAN CREATE HIS OWN SHOT WITH EASE!!!!!

2.) If the Pacers were smart, which they are and I'm sure they would try this deal, they would trade Ron Artest for PP. However Boston would not do that deal as Artest is crazy, and that stopped Memphis from trading a less talented player than PP for him.

3.) No one besides the Pacers are willing to take chance on Bender. After 5 years it is no longer a chance, it is a tradition. The Pacers should leap at the chance to trade Bender for anyone who go on the floor. So Ron Artest and Bender for PP? Done, I'll drive to the airport. Though Boston may want Bender to drive as the jet lag from the plane could put him in a coma.

4.) You know, I hated Patrick Ewing, but I'd been first in line to buy his Pacer jersey.

WEST
05-10-2005, 05:12 PM
Why trade Ron (perhaps our best all-around player) to a team in our confrence who we always seem to see in the playoffs. That would be like the Colts trading Peyton the Titans. (Well. . .almost)

Diamond Dave
05-10-2005, 05:18 PM
Why trade Ron (perhaps our best all-around player) to a team in our confrence who we always seem to see in the playoffs. That would be like the Colts trading Peyton the Titans. (Well. . .almost)

This is not even close to the same analogy. One, Peyton would be playing in the playoffs unlike Artest now. Even if he came back and played the whole season without retiring who is to say that he won't refuse to play with the offense like last year. Two, we would be getting an arguably better player in return. One that consistently performs well in the playoffs.

Since86
05-10-2005, 05:28 PM
Two, we would be getting an arguably better player in return. One that consistently performs well in the playoffs.

I'd like to add heavy emphasis on the arguably part. I don't see how trading offense, defense, and rebounding for offense, and well offense can be considered better. PP is a #1 guy. Pacers have made it pretty plain that JO is the #1 guy in IN for a LONG time. If, and thats a big if, PP decides he can be a 2nd option, you've cut his one good quality, by ten points easy.

Not hardly better.....

Diamond Dave
05-10-2005, 05:37 PM
I truly believe that PP would take a back seat on a winner. Just like every veteran player decides to do when they haven't expirienced much success on their own.

PP is the exact player that would cure the Pacer scoring drouts. First or second option. Right now we are complaining about the donut offense. PP is not a shooter but a scorer. There for if JO is not scoring and has to throw back out with the clock winding down to PP he can at least get a quality shot off. The best we have right now at that is Jax and he is too streaky. PP OTOH is much more consistent. So why his individual scoring may go down, the Pacers offense will improve. And let me close by saying that Ron Artest has scored zero pts, caused zero turnovers, and had shutdown no one during these playoffs. Surely PP could do better than that.

Since86
05-10-2005, 05:39 PM
And let me close by saying that Ron Artest has scored zero pts, caused zero turnovers, and had shutdown no one during these playoffs. Surely PP could do better than that.

Neither has PP for the Pacers this season. We're talking about NEXT year, and their possible contributions. So let's please drop the act like he's never going to play again, because it's just an act.

Hicks
05-10-2005, 05:42 PM
Pierce's defense is underrated.

Diamond Dave
05-10-2005, 05:57 PM
Neither has PP for the Pacers this season. We're talking about NEXT year, and their possible contributions. So let's please drop the act like he's never going to play again, because it's just an act.

Fine, even though historically as a Pacer Ron Artest has had multiple meltdowns in each full season and I believe next year will be no different, we will act like he is gonna come back and contribute. Well the way I see it the Pacer main problems right now are a lack of scoring. We go an at least one 6 min scoring drout each game and it kills us. We need a scorer. Yes I know Artest scored 20 a game, but he is not a go to guy like PP is. PP is a guy that can decide he is going to score and do it. Ron is not that type of player.

WEST
05-10-2005, 05:57 PM
This is not even close to the same analogy. One, Peyton would be playing in the playoffs unlike Artest now. Even if he came back and played the whole season without retiring who is to say that he won't refuse to play with the offense like last year. Two, we would be getting an arguably better player in return. One that consistently performs well in the playoffs.

Sorry, the Artest to Manning analogy wasn't the brightest thing I've ever said. I do think though if Artest had played in the Boston series the Pacers would have eaisly beaten them like last year. Last year Artest shut down PP in the playoffs and still scored. I do agree that Artest was the biggest part of the Pacers meltdown in Detroit last year in the ECF, but lets hope he come back next year more mature.

Diamond Dave
05-10-2005, 06:02 PM
Sorry, the Artest to Manning analogy wasn't the brightest thing I've ever said. I do think though if Artest had played in the Boston series the Pacers would have eaisly beaten them like last year. Last year Artest shut down PP in the playoffs and still scored. I do agree that Artest was the biggest part of the Pacers meltdown in Detroit last year in the ECF, but lets hope he come back next year more mature.

See, I agree that Artest did a great job on PP last year. However PP did not have the amount of options then like he did this year. And those options cause problems for the Pacers' team D, no matter who is on Pierce. So I would just throw it up in the air to say whether or not he would have done as good of a job this year or not.

But if PP came here he would have many options, even better ones than in Boston. 1) JO 2) Jax 3) Tins 4) the Jones) 5)good screen setting by Dale 6) possibly David Harrison.

PP would relish the chance to play on a real contender, IMO he would be the championship move.

Since86
05-10-2005, 06:05 PM
Fine, even though historically as a Pacer Ron Artest has had multiple meltdowns in each full season and I believe next year will be no different, we will act like he is gonna come back and contribute. Well the way I see it the Pacer main problems right now are a lack of scoring. We go an at least one 6 min scoring drout each game and it kills us. We need a scorer. Yes I know Artest scored 20 a game, but he is not a go to guy like PP is. PP is a guy that can decide he is going to score and do it. Ron is not that type of player.

Well if you ASSUME that, then maybe PP pulls a Winslow Jr and gets hurt in an accident this offseason. Watching his actions in game 6 shows me that he's just as capable of doing something stupid in the playoffs.

Ron is that type of player. PP relies on jumpshots, where Ron goes to the post. I'd take my chances with post move, than a pull up shot with a defender in his face.

beast23
05-10-2005, 06:07 PM
If we were trading for PP, Boston would want a lot more. Probably something like SJax, Foster, Pollard (expiring contract) plus maybe a 1st pick 2005 and a first pick 2007 for Pierce and crap throw-ins.

In other words, it would take a lot to entice Boston to give up PP.

shags
05-10-2005, 06:13 PM
If the Celtics deal Pierce, they'll probably try to package him with either Lafrentz or Blount. In addition to getting rid of there contracts, it will open up more PT for Al Jefferson.

Diamond Dave
05-10-2005, 06:15 PM
Well if you ASSUME that, then maybe PP pulls a Winslow Jr and gets hurt in an accident this offseason. Watching his actions in game 6 shows me that he's just as capable of doing something stupid in the playoffs.

Ron is that type of player. PP relies on jumpshots, where Ron goes to the post. I'd take my chances with post move, than a pull up shot with a defender in his face.

If PP relied on just jumpshots he wouldn't go to the line a gazillion times. Isn't that half of what we ***** about Reggie, that he take to many threes and as a result never goes the line? As far as the car accident thing, obviously anything and everything is a possibility in this world. However somethings such as an Artest meltdown is has a higher probability than other things such as PP suffering season ending injuries due to a car wreck.

And I have no idea why you want to live with Artests offense, I cringe everytime he tries to drive. He has poor ball handling ability, as no stop and go ability as he just continously bulls his way in with his head down and when he shoots it is often from his hip in some out of control scoop shot. Can he score? Yes. Anything like PP? No.

Diamond Dave
05-10-2005, 06:18 PM
If we were trading for PP, Boston would want a lot more. Probably something like SJax, Foster, Pollard (expiring contract) plus maybe a 1st pick 2005 and a first pick 2007 for Pierce and crap throw-ins.

In other words, it would take a lot to entice Boston to give up PP.

Don't know if it works but,

Ron Artest, Scot Pollard, 2005 1st Rounder, and 2006 2nd Rounder

for

Paul Pierce, Tony Allen, and 2005 2nd Rounder

In a heartbeat.

Don't think they'd do it though.

beast23
05-10-2005, 06:33 PM
And I have no idea why you want to live with Artests offense, I cringe everytime he tries to drive. He has poor ball handling ability, as no stop and go ability as he just continously bulls his way in with his head down and when he shoots it is often from his hip in some out of control scoop shot. Can he score? Yes. Anything like PP? No.That's where we differ. I don't find Artest's ball-handling abilities to be poor, but perhaps average.

As for out of control scoop shot, I don't agree with that at all. If it didn't achieve the desired results (scoring and/or drawing fouls) a very significant percentage of the time, I'd be forced to agree. But it's just the opposite. Ron has a variety of playground moves near the basket, that much is true. But when he consistently overpowers his defenders and scores more often than not, I hardly think we can label his moves as out of control.

But I would take PP for a reasonable trade. Like Reggie, he's fearless. Additionally, he gets to the line more, and has a greater variety of ways to score.

I think with the addition of PP and the further development of JJ and Freddie that our dependence on Jermaine's post game would be reduced.

indygeezer
05-10-2005, 06:42 PM
Whew! I thought for a minute this was goikng to be another Artest thread.

They will want, at a minimum...Tinsley, and perhaps JJ and someone like Foster. I was going to say Jackson, but with his overall behavior this season he's going to be untradeable.
Payton is a FA and TInsley should come cheaper than an aging Payton. JJ has potential, and everyone can use a worker like Jeff....They'd love him in Boston.


Ya know, if you look at it, we really don't have that many marketable players.

JO....uh, that's for another day
Artest....pyrihana
Jackson...see Artest
Miller....done
Tinsley....marketable
Bender....yeah right
Foster....some value
Pollard....may have some throw in value (more next year)
JJ.........oh yeah, but not a lot...yet.
Freddie.....some throw in value
AJ............filler
Gill...........filler lite
Harrison....uh
Edwards......can we get em to hold another dispersal draft?
DD..............he either signs here or retires
forgot Cro....maybe somebody would value him, but I don't know who...NY or LA???? Nope zeke is in NY that ain't happening.

Out of that, show me who relly warrants big time trade value???

ChicagoJ
05-10-2005, 06:43 PM
Well Ron+ wasn't enough for Ainge to give us Pierce last summer, and Pierce's stock continues to be steady or go up and Ron's continues to go down.

For that reason alone, I think Danny Ainge is an idiot. :devil:

SycamoreKen
05-10-2005, 08:08 PM
If we could get Pierce for Artest I would do it in a second. Pierce does better in every statistical catagory except steals and blocks.

skyfire
05-10-2005, 08:19 PM
ergh I dont want Pierce at all.

he had a meltdown to rival ron in the 1st round when his team was in a very good position, which concievably could have cost his team a series. sure he is a talented scorer, reasonable defender and rebounder but I dont like his attitude. he wants to be the primary scorer but seems to get very down on his team when things aren't going his way. no way in hell do we trade ron for him. ron tears him apart one on one, atleast when ron melts down in the playoffs its the ecf and its a lil bit justified.

i could see memphis offering multiple players for him. i think pierce/gasol could be a very potent combo.

shags
05-10-2005, 08:44 PM
ergh I dont want Pierce at all.

he had a meltdown to rival ron in the 1st round when his team was in a very good position, which concievably could have cost his team a series. sure he is a talented scorer, reasonable defender and rebounder but I dont like his attitude. he wants to be the primary scorer but seems to get very down on his team when things aren't going his way. no way in hell do we trade ron for him. ron tears him apart one on one, atleast when ron melts down in the playoffs its the ecf and its a lil bit justified.

i could see memphis offering multiple players for him. i think pierce/gasol could be a very potent combo.

Memphis is a good possibility. A Paul Pierce, Mark Blount, and Marcus Banks for Lorenzen Wright, Jason Williams, James Posey, and a lottery protected 1st rounder works, provided trade rules remain similar. That doesn't seem too outlandish for either team to me.

Anthem
05-10-2005, 09:15 PM
Pierce for Artest? Somebody shoot me.... Ron eats Pierce ALIVE.

If they're willing to look at Jax and Bender, then let's talk. Of course, I don't think they will be.

If I was Ainge I'd sit tight. They can have a great team if they keep the pieces together.

Hicks
05-10-2005, 09:35 PM
Ron may eat him alive, but our team will be better than his. The Celtics w/ Artest couldn't handle Pierce AND O'Neal, not to mention Jackson and a healthy Tinsley.

Pig Nash
05-10-2005, 09:37 PM
Ron may eat him alive, but our team will be better than his. The Celtics w/ Artest couldn't handle Pierce AND O'Neal, not to mention Jackson and a healthy Tinsley.

same could be said for a pacer team w/ Artest.

Hicks
05-10-2005, 10:00 PM
same could be said for a pacer team w/ Artest.

Yes, but don't forget with Pierce we have better offense, still good D, and the big obvious: Far, far less risk of incidents, distractions, suspensions from him than Ron.

Jermaniac
05-10-2005, 10:03 PM
Celtics wont trade Pierce for Ron, but if Ron was to be traded I would love for us to get Pierce.

Mr. Pink
05-10-2005, 10:11 PM
I'm sure DW and LB would have to work up a 3 team deal for Pierce

ChicagoJ
05-10-2005, 10:12 PM
Who do the Knicks have that Ainge would take?

PacerFan31
05-10-2005, 10:14 PM
Who knows, Ainge is unpredictable as hell

Mr. Pink
05-10-2005, 10:15 PM
Who wouldn't Isiah take? I'm sure Ainge could swing a crappy deal

Hicks
05-10-2005, 10:15 PM
Marbury! :D

ChicagoJ
05-10-2005, 10:19 PM
Who wouldn't Isiah take? I'm sure Ainge could swing a crappy deal


Ahhhh... you missed it... Isiah's taking Ron. We're getting Pierce. I just need to fill in the [blank], as is [blank] goes from NY to Boston.

:cool:

Mr. Pink
05-10-2005, 10:22 PM
Ahhhh... you missed it... Isiah's taking Ron. We're getting Pierce. I just need to fill in the [blank], as is [blank] goes from NY to Boston.

:cool:
That's good for us then...

WE could swing Isiah a crappy deal?

Bender - NY
Pierce - INDY
and whoever - BOSTON

indytoad
05-10-2005, 10:26 PM
Pierce = not completely bat**** crazy. That's enough for me.

Unfortunately Ainge isn't stupid either, so this would never go down.

IndyToad
My mail is better than your mail

Hicks
05-10-2005, 10:29 PM
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="500"> <tbody><tr><td class="title_bl">Just for fun...

Indiana Trade Breakdown</td></tr><tr><td class="body_bl_np" width="100%"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" class="title_dt">Outgoing</td></tr> <tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">http://207.44.220.101/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/Pollard_Scott_ind.jpg</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Scot Pollard
6-11 C from Kansas
3.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.6 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">http://207.44.220.101/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/Artest_Ron_ind.jpg</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. Johns
24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes</td></tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="title_dt">Incoming</td></tr> <tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">http://207.44.220.101/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/Pierce_Paul_bos.jpg</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="title_gr">Change in team outlook: -6.9 ppg, -4.0 rpg, and +0.7 apg.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody> </table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="500"> <tbody><tr><td class="title_bl">Boston Trade Breakdown</td></tr><tr><td class="body_bl_np" width="100%"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" class="title_dt">Outgoing</td></tr> <tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">http://207.44.220.101/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/Pierce_Paul_bos.jpg</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">http://207.44.220.101/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/LaFrentz_Raef_bos.jpg</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Raef LaFrentz
6-11 C from Kansas
11.1 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.2 apg in 27.4 minutes</td></tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="title_dt">Incoming</td></tr> <tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">http://207.44.220.101/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/Pollard_Scott_ind.jpg</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Scot Pollard
6-11 C from Kansas
3.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.6 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">http://207.44.220.101/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/Marbury_Stephon_nyk.jpg</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Stephon Marbury
6-2 PG from Georgia Tech
21.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 8.2 apg in 40.0 minutes</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="title_gr">Change in team outlook: -7.1 ppg, -6.3 rpg, and +3.2 apg.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody> </table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="500"> <tbody><tr><td class="title_bl">New York Trade Breakdown</td></tr><tr><td class="body_bl_np" width="100%"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" class="title_dt">Outgoing</td></tr> <tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">http://207.44.220.101/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/Marbury_Stephon_nyk.jpg</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Stephon Marbury
6-2 PG from Georgia Tech
21.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 8.2 apg in 40.0 minutes</td></tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="title_dt">Incoming</td></tr> <tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">http://207.44.220.101/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/Artest_Ron_ind.jpg</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. Johns
24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes</td></tr><tr><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="75">http://207.44.220.101/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/LaFrentz_Raef_bos.jpg</td><td class="tdpad" valign="top" width="425">Raef LaFrentz
6-11 C from Kansas
11.1 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.2 apg in 27.4 minutes</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="title_gr">Change in team outlook: +14.0 ppg, +10.3 rpg, and -3.9 apg.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody> </table>

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="80%"> <tbody><tr><td class="title_s">Successful Scenario</td></tr><tr><td class="body_s">Due to Indiana, Boston, and New York being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Indiana, Boston, and New York had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.</td></tr></tbody> </table>

Anthem
05-10-2005, 11:05 PM
I'll bump this thread next time we play Boston, as Ron destroys Pierce.

Hicks
05-10-2005, 11:28 PM
Whooptie-doo. We didn't already know that.:unimpress

beast23
05-10-2005, 11:30 PM
I'll bump this thread next time we play Boston, as Ron destroys Pierce.
.... on both ends of the floor!

Sorry, but Larry/Donny would have to be complete idiots to trade Artest straight up for Pierce.

Folks can complain all they want about Artest and their belief that he has learned nothing in the past six months, but he brings significantly more variety to an offense than Pierce.

He has a perimeter game, he can slash, he can pass, and definitely unlike Pierce, he can post up any other SF and probably a majority of PFs in the league.

Defensively, it isn't even close. He has no peer at the SF or SG positions.

That being said, I'd take Pierce. I just wouldn't trade Artest to get him. If Boston would take a package with SJax, then fine. Otherwise, forget them.

SoupIsGood
05-10-2005, 11:30 PM
I'll bump this thread next time we play Boston, as Ron destroys Pierce.

I'll bump this thread next time Pierce explodes for one of his best games ever, because Ron was too bone-headed to stay on the court... kind of like this year.

ChicagoJ
05-10-2005, 11:37 PM
Looks like you'll both get opportunities to bump the thread.

Unclebuck
05-10-2005, 11:50 PM
Let me ask this really stupid question. If Ron did not have any issues, is there anyone who would trade Artest for Pierce.

Anthem
05-10-2005, 11:54 PM
That being said, I'd take Pierce. I just wouldn't trade Artest to get him. If Boston would take a package with SJax, then fine. Otherwise, forget them.

Agreed there.

sweabs
05-10-2005, 11:57 PM
Let me ask this really stupid question. If Ron did not have any issues, is there anyone who would trade Artest for Pierce.

Hell no.

Remember what Larry Bird said (illustrated in rabidpacerfan's signature), something along the lines of "No one goes through what Ron did and doesn't change". Please, let's just wait to see what we have here before we do any premature deals like this. I'm not going to give up on Ronnie.

Mr. Pink
05-11-2005, 12:00 AM
I think most people are eager to trade Ron is because they want results now. That's why we have such a hard time with Bender. We all want to see the results ASAP.

We need to do something about BENDER, but we need to give RON a chance before we do anything drastic. I say if he hasn't improved our team by next year's all-star break...THEN WE TRADE HIM.

SoupIsGood
05-11-2005, 12:07 AM
I think most people are eager to trade Ron is because they want results now. That's why we have such a hard time with Bender. We all want to see the results ASAP.

We need to do something about BENDER, but we need to give RON a chance before we do anything drastic. I say if he hasn't improved our team by next year's all-star break...THEN WE TRADE HIM.

I think those willing to deal Ron are usually those willing to suffer a year or two's setback, to later have a chance at not only greatness, but long-term, stable greatness.

Mr. Pink
05-11-2005, 12:12 AM
Everyone has thier own reasons...

Hicks
05-11-2005, 12:33 AM
Let me ask this really stupid question. If Ron did not have any issues, is there anyone who would trade Artest for Pierce.

I think you know the answer to this question. I think you also realize that's simply not the reality of Ron Artest.

pb777
05-11-2005, 01:00 AM
I for one would NOT be jumping up and down to trade for PP, let's call him pee-pee. Pee-Pee is just to much a crybaby. There's rarely any fire with pee-pee. He can shoot, but, pee-pee would not be a good leader or locker room guy here. The Pacers dont like seeing pee-pee in their locker room, you know they prefer big chested pretty women. We need more warrior type guys anyway, like Amarie. I just dont see pee-pee as a good fit for the Pacers. What do you think, would you like to see pee-pee here?

indytoad
05-11-2005, 01:12 AM
We need to do something about BENDER, but we need to give RON a chance before we do anything drastic. I say if he hasn't improved our team by next year's all-star break...THEN WE TRADE HIM.

Although, by the time it reached that point, I don't imagine anyone else would take him, at least not in a reasonable trade. Hell, no one wants to now, even.

IndyToad
Turn on all the fans

ChicagoJ
05-11-2005, 01:25 AM
Hell no.

Remember what Larry Bird said (illustrated in rabidpacerfan's signature), something along the lines of "No one goes through what Ron did and doesn't change". Please, let's just wait to see what we have here before we do any premature deals like this. I'm not going to give up on Ronnie.

We already know "what we have here."

"What we have here" hasn't changed one bit since his days with the Bulls, and probably before that even. Well, maybe he's gotten worse, but probably not.

Leopards can't change thier spots. There's no reasonable, rational reason to believe Ron will be any different in the future than he has been in the recent and not-so-recent past.

This is all just wishful thinking, except for the posturing from Pacers' management in order to save face with an acceptable trade.

Pacers' management was ready to pull the trigger last summer, shopping him for McGrady, Pierce, Redd, Wells, etc., and no one would touch him. Let's quit pretending that he's untouchable, Pacers' management was just subscribing to the "bigger fool" theory and it backfired. All it would've taken last summer is one team to say, "What the heck, maybe he can turn it around here". Clearly there aren't any other GMs in the league - with the possible exception of Isiah (who's got nothing to offer) - that believe he can turn it around. And that is the one, singular reason he was even a Pacer at the beginning of the season. He's not here because DW or Bird want him, he's here because -when it was time to make a deal- nobody else wanted him, either.

Tim
05-11-2005, 01:27 AM
Folks, if you are serious about Paul, its gonna cost us TINSLEY.

Tinsley is the most important player on the team, not JO and definately not Ron.

There is no way Doc gives up Paul without Tinsley in return. You all know the Pacers are a much better team with a healthy Tinsley, he makes the Pacers contenders.

There is NO WAY we part with Tinsley, he is the only player we that makes the whole team better.

Anthem
05-11-2005, 02:27 AM
Who says we tried to trade Ron for Pierce?

tora tora
05-11-2005, 04:03 AM
There is NO WAY we part with Tinsley, he is the only player we that makes the whole team better.


:amen:

SycamoreKen
05-11-2005, 08:39 AM
Let me ask this really stupid question. If Ron did not have any issues, is there anyone who would trade Artest for Pierce.

I'll echo Hicks here. My only reasons for dealing Artest is what goes on between his ears.

Stryder
05-11-2005, 08:50 AM
Leopards can't change thier spots.

I hate that saying.

Yes, a leopard cannot change it's phenotype. Only through selective breeding, can a leopard's physical attributes be changed.

Ron Artest's problem is not his physical characteristics; it is his behavior.

The analogy does not work.

cramerica
05-11-2005, 08:50 AM
I'll take Pierce........for a second rounder.

indygeezer
05-11-2005, 08:54 AM
I'll echo Hicks here. My only reasons for dealing Artest is what goes on between his ears.


Agreed, and with Jay too.

I'd love to see Ron succeed here. But as I've said before, the 19th proved that with Ron, no lead is so big and no game is so secure that you can be sure of how he will react to anything. I promise you he will not go into the stands again but, you never know what he will do. His teamates will ALWAYS have to look over their shoulders or watching him out of the corner of their eye. And rightly or wrongly, everytime he sits on the bench and slyly gives the crowd the finger it will be magnified 100 fold by the media. Every move he makes will be photgraphed and scrutinized microscopically. But that not only affects him, it affects his teamates. Do they want to live with this? How much distraction will it create for the team? Do you want the focus of this team to be his every action, or the winning of games? BTW, this won't go away after just a few games or months...like British royalty, from here on he will have the paparizzi following his every move.

Diamond Dave
05-11-2005, 10:17 AM
For you Ron Artest supporters, is there anyone you would trade this guy for?

Is it only KG, Duncan? Would you even trade him for Shaq, Lebron, or Wade?

If this is the type of player you think that he is, with the mental baggage and all, did we not way overpay JO? Should we not look to trade JO and build around Artest. These two do not work together. It has been well documented that Artest and JO have had many fights behind the scenes. And Artest's complaint last year was that he didn't like the throw it into JO offense.

Does this team need to do nothing? Are you content to stay the same over the summer?

Hicks
05-11-2005, 10:37 AM
Where's this (apparent) myth that Boston would demand Tinsley coming from? Aside from just because you might think they would?

Diamond Dave
05-11-2005, 10:45 AM
Where's this (apparent) myth that Boston would demand Tinsley coming from? Aside from just because you might think they would?

Especially considering they already have Delonte West and Marcus Banks to follow Gary Payton.

Anthem
05-11-2005, 11:22 AM
For you Ron Artest supporters, is there anyone you would trade this guy for?

Is it only KG, Duncan? Would you even trade him for Shaq, Lebron, or Wade?

DD, I said I was gonna be done with this discussion, but you're bringing up all the old stupid arguments again and I can't stay out.

Yes, I would trade Ron for all of those guys. Everybody here would. Yes, I was in favor of trading Ron for TMac. No, I don't (in general) like the trade of Ron for Peja, but I know Bird's always been crazy about Peja and would be ok with it. Odom goes on that list as well. James Posey does not. Bonzi Wells does not. A second-round pick does not. An expiring contract does not.

Try to understand the issues here. I'm so freaking sick if this line of questioning. A leopard can change his stripes... look at Rasheed Wallace. 11/19 didn't "prove" anything about how Ron will act in the future. If he comes back and isn't a changed man, then I'll be fine with moving him. And if Bird/Donnie/Carlisle say he needs to go, then I won't second-guess them. But you're refusing to believe the coach, GM, president, and teammates just to fit your own opinions.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Anthem
05-11-2005, 11:23 AM
And for the record....

Until somebody shows me otherwise, I don't believe we tried to trade Artest for Pierce. I don't believe we tried to trade him for Walker (I believe Artest was the target and Walker the bait, and we wisely said no). I don't believe West refused to move Bonzi for Ron (he had complimentary things to say about Ron a few weeks after, and so I've always viewed it as an attempt to bargain). I believe we tried to move Artest for Redd (back when we still had harrington). I believe we tried to move Ron for Peja.

sweabs
05-11-2005, 11:35 AM
There's no reasonable, rational reason to believe Ron will be any different in the future than he has been in the recent and not-so-recent past.

The reasonable, and rational reason to believe Ron will change is because he just served a season-long suspension, losing millions of dollars, and being withheld from playing the game he loves.

I want to see what this experience has taught him; he has most likely gained so much more respect for the game (which he has been quoted as saying). And all I know is that line-up we played before 11/19 was something of beauty that I need to see again. Let's not forget the scoreboard on 11/19.

ChicagoJ
05-11-2005, 12:13 PM
The reasonable, and rational reason to believe Ron will change is because he just served a season-long suspension, losing millions of dollars, and being withheld from playing the game he loves.

I want to see what this experience has taught him; he has most likely gained so much more respect for the game (which he has been quoted as saying). And all I know is that line-up we played before 11/19 was something of beauty that I need to see again. Let's not forget the scoreboard on 11/19.


He's been punished repeatedly in the past. I just don't see how a longer punishment - related to an on-court incident - is really going to make a difference to his off-court disruptions. Why do I feel like I'm the only one that remembers that he quit on the team/ got in a fight with our annointed franchise player just a week before the brawl? I don't care if he never does anything suspendable on-the-court ever again, I'm concenred about the behind-the-scenes crap and I don't think you can connect the dots between this punishment (for which he told GQ he didn't really do anything wrong) and the off-court crap.

People keep referring to this comment, "one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over-and-over while expecting different results." Its crazy to expect that he'll finally change his disruptive behavior *this time*. Maybe he will change - anything's possible no matter how remote the odds, but its crazy to expect it.

As I've said before, I think his best chance - albeit remote - of changing will come from a change-of-scenery, not the severity of this particular punishment. He frankly deserves a fresh start -especially in arenas outside of Indianapolis - that he won't get with the Pacers.

I'm not saying he's not learning anything from this experience, but what he's probably learned is, "I'm one step away from permanent expulsion", so its likely that his logical response is to not play 'so close to the edge'. It may take him a long time to figure out how to balance his characteristic high levels of effort with the reality that he must keep himself under control.

Bball
05-11-2005, 12:32 PM
One thing in the Artest situation is which way the team wants to hedge their bets on Artest. Do they want to hang onto him at almost all costs (except getting an All Star in a trade) or do they so worry enough about another 'episode' that they believe to not trade for the best deal possible would bite them later if an episode would happen and his trade value plummet below zero.

Obviously they can't come out and SAY option 2 is where they are setting up camp.

BTW... I agree with the premise if this situation hasn't gotten thru to him than nothing will... but you still can't be worry free. And I'm sure every GM in the league feels the same way. One more 'episode' and he'll be absolute poison... if he's not already.

Would a banning from the NBA relieve the Pacers contractually?

-BBall

ChicagoJ
05-11-2005, 02:14 PM
Would a banning from the NBA relieve the Pacers contractually?

-BBall


Even if the answer is 'yes' (and I think it is), I don't believe that really helps the Pacers in terms of a replacement because they're still way over the cap.

Bball
05-11-2005, 02:44 PM
Even if the answer is 'yes' (and I think it is), I don't believe that really helps the Pacers in terms of a replacement because they're still way over the cap.

Well then they would just appeal to the NBA to.... uhhhhh nevermind...


-Bball

Since86
05-11-2005, 02:50 PM
I think those willing to deal Ron are usually those willing to suffer a year or two's setback, to later have a chance at not only greatness, but long-term, stable greatness.

Are you planning on Bender coming back or something? :rolleyes: He has zero trade value, so what do you think you're going to get for him? This team is always injury prone, so I doubt that's going to change. It would be this exact team with maybe a same caliber backup pg, or some variation of DD.

Mr. Pink
05-11-2005, 03:25 PM
We could easily get something good for Artest. I would take someone like Corey Magette or Quentin Richardson for Artest. Sure these guys aren't in the same level as Artest, but they would help out our team.

The Kings traded Webber for 3 PF's. We don't really need to get equal falue out of Artest. You just want what's gonna help this team all around. I'd be contempt with trading Artest for 1 pretty good player and 1/2 decent players.

With Miller retiring, we have our 3 main scoring options set, S-Jax, JO, and Artest. Half the time though they all want to be the first option. A couple more role players would help out, and possible make our bench even stronger.

Since86
05-11-2005, 03:39 PM
We could easily get something good for Artest.

He would have to prove he's changed. Teams wouldn't be willing to take a blind chance on him. If he can prove that he's changed, then why would the Ps trade him?

If someone is going to take a chance, then they're not gonna empty young talent for him. Why trade away a given, for a maybe? It doesn't make sense, unless there is a player from NY that we would like.

Mr. Pink
05-11-2005, 03:43 PM
He would have to prove he's changed. Teams wouldn't be willing to take a blind chance on him. If he can prove that he's changed, then why would the Ps trade him?

If someone is going to take a chance, then they're not gonna empty young talent for him. Why trade away a given, for a maybe? It doesn't make sense, unless there is a player from NY that we would like.


I'm not saying to get a bunch of young talent for Artest. I'm saying that I wouldn't mind getting 2 or 3 solid players for Artest. I think that would help us out, because it would allow us to have good players in more positions. Like Stromile Swift, Kenny Thomas, Earl Boykins, etc...

Players that aren't gonna be super stars, but players that play hard and are good/pretty good.

Mr. Pink
05-11-2005, 03:44 PM
I'm not also saying we should do this. I'm just pointing out that I would be happy if DW or LB pulled something like this.

Since86
05-11-2005, 03:47 PM
I'm not saying to get a bunch of young talent for Artest. I'm saying that I wouldn't mind getting 2 or 3 solid players for Artest. I think that would help us out, because it would allow us to have good players in more positions. Like Stromile Swift, Kenny Thomas, Earl Boykins, etc...

Players that aren't gonna be super stars, but players that play hard and are good/pretty good.

2 or 3 for one player is a bit lopsided, which is a bunch. The only way we'd get those types of players is to add somone else in that's better than them IMO. Teams aren't going to give away solid contributers for a player that could get long suspensions for minor incidents. Artest is on Stern's shart list, and it's going to take a while to get off of it. Jax got one game for verbally abusing a ref, and Ron is on a way shorter leash than him.

Mr. Pink
05-11-2005, 03:48 PM
Artest+Pollard+Bender

I wouldn't care to try that.

DisplacedKnick
05-11-2005, 04:03 PM
We could easily get something good for Artest. I would take someone like Corey Magette or Quentin Richardson for Artest. Sure these guys aren't in the same level as Artest, but they would help out our team.


I wouldn't give either of those guys for Artest if I was a GM - wouldn't even think about it.

You know the kind of player you could get? Kwame Brown. Or Jason Williams (Memphis PG).

You can probably get someone decent but I don't think you'd get anyone who their GM would project as an all-star starter some day.

Edit: Didn't read your 2nd post where you said: Like Stromile Swift, Kenny Thomas, Earl Boykins

I agree - folks like that are who you'd have to aim for.

Unclebuck
05-11-2005, 04:12 PM
I nominate this thread for the funniest thread of the year.

Thanks for the laughs

Harmonica
05-11-2005, 04:38 PM
And for the record....

Until somebody shows me otherwise, I don't believe we tried to trade Artest for Pierce. I don't believe we tried to trade him for Walker (I believe Artest was the target and Walker the bait, and we wisely said no). I don't believe West refused to move Bonzi for Ron (he had complimentary things to say about Ron a few weeks after, and so I've always viewed it as an attempt to bargain). I believe we tried to move Artest for Redd (back when we still had harrington). I believe we tried to move Ron for Peja.

Pierce was certainly someone DW and Larry had their eye on with regards to moving Ron last summer. And if they could've made it happen, bye-bye Ron. There were two attempts to trade Ron for Peja. Right after the ECFs and later in the summer. There was an offer made of Ron + Jon for McGrady. I don't know about any talks with Memphis, but I do know Redd was someone we were also interested in. Whether that resulted in serious talks or not, I don't know. But I imagine we did have conversations with Boston about Pierce because the interest was definitely there.

shags
05-11-2005, 04:41 PM
Are you planning on Bender coming back or something? :rolleyes: He has zero trade value, so what do you think you're going to get for him? This team is always injury prone, so I doubt that's going to change. It would be this exact team with maybe a same caliber backup pg, or some variation of DD.

Come on, Bender doesn't have zero trade value. The Lakers are willing to give up Devean George and Slava Medvedenko, as long as the Pacers throw in a first rounder. :D

NewType
05-11-2005, 04:50 PM
I think this long time-off would really have some effect on Artest. In the GQ article, most of you read what you wanted to read: Artest siad he would do the same thing. However, what I found interesting is the part that shows that the time-off allows him to reconnect with his kids and family. In the past, I always feel that Ron was playing for himself. In the article, it seems that his eldest daughter has a pretty goog influence on him right now. Maybe the time-off and the loss financial income allow him to truely realize his kids' future depends on him; if he wants to provide a good childhood and a great living environment, which he didn't have, he needs to stay in the game. He may not change for the suspension and fines, but I bet he will change for his family.

I always believe a man can change for his family and the there is no greater force can change a man like his family does.

Diamond Dave
05-11-2005, 04:51 PM
I nominate this thread for the funniest thread of the year.

Thanks for the laughs

Its funny how certain subjects throw some poster's credibility right out the window.

Any Dale Davis thread completely paralyzes Peck's thoughts.

And any Ron Artest threads do the same for you.

Unclebuck
05-11-2005, 05:28 PM
Its funny how certain subjects throw some poster's credibility right out the window.

Any Dale Davis thread completely paralyzes Peck's thoughts.

And any Ron Artest threads do the same for you.


I'm only human

DisplacedKnick
05-11-2005, 05:45 PM
Come on, Bender doesn't have zero trade value. The Lakers are willing to give up Devean George and Slava Medvedenko, as long as the Pacers throw in a first rounder. :D

Since any first rd draft pick would have a very good chance of being better than any of those three players then I submit to you that Bender has NEGATIVE trade value.

As in, "If you take him off our hands, we'll throw in a first-rd pick."

SoupIsGood
05-11-2005, 06:16 PM
Its funny how certain subjects throw some poster's credibility right out the window.




That isn't fair, bringing Hulkster into this discussion.

Mr. Pink
05-11-2005, 07:51 PM
I nominate this thread for the funniest thread of the year.

Thanks for the laughs


What's soooo funny about it?

When would a good time to trade Artest would be? If Artest comes out with raging stats, then we aren't gonna want to trade him. Or would we? But if he doesn't, and still has a temper...then what? We won't be able to get near what we could probally right now.

I bet there are some teams with legit offers right now, that we could work a trade for with Artest. IF WE WANTED TO.

I still want to keep Artest, because I think he is gonna be a BEAST next year. I'm just exploring all options.

Anthem
05-11-2005, 09:06 PM
Pierce was certainly someone DW and Larry had their eye on with regards to moving Ron last summer. And if they could've made it happen, bye-bye Ron... But I imagine we did have conversations with Boston about Pierce because the interest was definitely there.

Surely you're joking. Ron DESTROYED Pierce last year. On offense and defense.

Do you have any kind of source?

Bball
05-11-2005, 09:10 PM
What's soooo funny about it?

When would a good time to trade Artest would be? If Artest comes out with raging stats, then we aren't gonna want to trade him. Or would we? But if he doesn't, and still has a temper...then what? We won't be able to get near what we could probally right now.

I bet there are some teams with legit offers right now, that we could work a trade for with Artest. IF WE WANTED TO.

I still want to keep Artest, because I think he is gonna be a BEAST next year. I'm just exploring all options.

I'm leaning towards thinking that there are probably not any teams willing to take Artest for much more than a bag of chips.

That might change when some people see how soft this Indiana team is without Artest. Maybe that will make his stock go back up some once people figure out JO isn't the engine that makes this team go (heresy statement there, I know).

-Bball

indytoad
05-11-2005, 10:57 PM
I'm leaning towards thinking that there are probably not any teams willing to take Artest for much more than a bag of chips.

That might change when some people see how soft this Indiana team is without Artest. Maybe that will make his stock go back up some once people figure out JO isn't the engine that makes this team go (heresy statement there, I know).

-Bball

Wait, what does Tinsley have to do with anything?

IndyToad
Just hit enter

grace
05-12-2005, 10:31 AM
If we get Paul Pierce next year not only will I not be at any of the games I won't watch any of them either.

I know none of you care. I just thought I'd share.

Diamond Dave
05-12-2005, 11:10 AM
Surely you're joking. Ron DESTROYED Pierce last year. On offense and defense.

Do you have any kind of source?

He is not, and its legit.

Diesel
05-12-2005, 03:01 PM
I'd like to add heavy emphasis on the arguably part. I don't see how trading offense, defense, and rebounding for offense, and well offense can be considered better. PP is a #1 guy. Pacers have made it pretty plain that JO is the #1 guy in IN for a LONG time. If, and thats a big if, PP decides he can be a 2nd option, you've cut his one good quality, by ten points easy.

Not hardly better.....

Well Paul Pierce really isn't just an offensive player. Hes one of those special offensive players that can will a team to victory. I consider him an assassin like Reggie was. Your never really out of any game with him. Artest is a good offensive player but doesn't have the ability to explode offensively like Pierce. He just makes it look so easy. Pierce is also a guy who will give you 4-5 assists and grab 6 boards a game. Defensively hes not a stud but won't kill you either.

IF you are going to trade Artest this is one player along with Marion, Carter at the swing positions I wouldn't mind getting.

Vicious Tyrant
05-12-2005, 03:03 PM
I totally disagree with any of you who say Artest wouldn't be a HIGH LEVEL commodity on the trading market. The man is ELITELY talented and ,in my uneducated opinion, if DW/LB get on the phones offering Artest, they could get a lot for him. I'm too lazy to actually look up some salaries that work, especially considering that they could toss in other contracts to make it work, but I say ARTEST WOULD BE EXTREMELY VALUABLE on the market.

Diamond Dave
05-12-2005, 03:19 PM
I totally disagree with any of you who say Artest wouldn't be a HIGH LEVEL commodity on the trading market. The man is ELITELY talented and ,in my uneducated opinion, if DW/LB get on the phones offering Artest, they could get a lot for him. I'm too lazy to actually look up some salaries that work, especially considering that they could toss in other contracts to make it work, but I say ARTEST WOULD BE EXTREMELY VALUABLE on the market.

Well according to several past articles from last summer, and at least one inside source. Its just not true.

Harmonica
05-12-2005, 03:24 PM
I totally disagree with any of you who say Artest wouldn't be a HIGH LEVEL commodity on the trading market. The man is ELITELY talented and ,in my uneducated opinion, if DW/LB get on the phones offering Artest, they could get a lot for him. I'm too lazy to actually look up some salaries that work, especially considering that they could toss in other contracts to make it work, but I say ARTEST WOULD BE EXTREMELY VALUABLE on the market.

Let's see...last summer we tried to trade Ron + Jon for McGrady. They didn't bite. We tried to trade Ron for Peja. On two separate occasions. They didn't bite. We expressed interest in Pierce and Redd. Nothing.

You thinking maybe we're not aiming high enough?

Alabama-Redneck
05-12-2005, 03:29 PM
Well according to several past articles from last summer, and at least one inside source. Its just not true.


Never ever believe anything you read and only half of what you see.

Just remember, what you read is nothing more than the writer's version of what he thinks happened and may not be anymore factual than what you may read on the bathroom wall. Writers are paid to write and not always to be correct.

If they were held accountable for their material, you would see a lot less published.

:cool:

indygeezer
05-12-2005, 03:29 PM
I totally disagree with any of you who say Artest wouldn't be a HIGH LEVEL commodity on the trading market. The man is ELITELY talented and ,in my uneducated opinion, if DW/LB get on the phones offering Artest, they could get a lot for him. I'm too lazy to actually look up some salaries that work, especially considering that they could toss in other contracts to make it work, but I say ARTEST WOULD BE EXTREMELY VALUABLE on the market.


And everybody will be so blinded by the opportunity to grab Ron that they will ignore the fact that the people who know him best are trying to deal him????

Diamond Dave
05-12-2005, 03:31 PM
Never ever believe anything you read and only half of what you see.

Just remember, what you read is nothing more than the writer's version of what he thinks happened and may not be anymore factual than what you may read on the bathroom wall. Writers are paid to write and not always to be correct.

If they were held accountable for their material, you would see a lot less published.

:cool:

Hence why I never read the Star's coverage of the Pacers. No, the rumors I speak of came from other papers, while no garuntee obviously, it is still likely when several papers mention that the Pacers are involved in the same talks.

Alabama-Redneck
05-12-2005, 03:47 PM
Hence why I never read the Star's coverage of the Pacers. No, the rumors I speak of came from other papers, while no garuntee obviously, it is still likely when several papers mention that the Pacers are involved in the same talks.

It is really difficult but if you can find a source that is consistently accurate, believe that source. So many times someone will publish something that sounds good and many, many others will jump on the bandwagon.

Prime example was the supposed invovlement of Ron Artest at a party in Atlanta 2-3 years ago. Several of the national news media and papers jumped on that story without investigating it's validity.

So, just because "several" papers carry the same story could mean they used the same source, which could be correct or incorrect. Who knows ??

:cool:

Kegboy
05-12-2005, 09:23 PM
(shuffles in way too late to this thread)

If Paul Pierce was anybody except Paul Pierce, I’d want him, but he’s Paul Pierce, so no thank you.

(shuffles out)

grace
05-12-2005, 10:28 PM
Kegboy shuffled out without tell you what he said to me after I said "Can you imagine Ron, Stephen, and Pierce on the same team?:shudder:"


You think Jack whines about teammates being mean to him. Just imagine Paul after having to practice against Ron every day. “Mistah Bird, Mistah Bird! Ronnie pulled my pants down again! Make him stop!” :pout:

Vicious Tyrant
05-13-2005, 09:34 AM
Let's see...last summer we tried to trade Ron + Jon for McGrady. They didn't bite. We tried to trade Ron for Peja. On two separate occasions. They didn't bite. We expressed interest in Pierce and Redd. Nothing.

You thinking maybe we're not aiming high enough?

OOOOOh, you're going to try REASONING with me, big guy?!? TOO BAD - YOUR LITTLE TRICK WON'T WORK!!!

Ehhhh, maybe you're right....

RWB
05-14-2005, 02:27 PM
And this update from Boston Herald.com

If Pierce were to go -- possible destinations
By Mark Murphy
Thursday, May 12, 2005 - Updated: May 13, 2005 06:46 AM EST

Though his name has occasionally surfaced in the NBA marketplace, the Celtics have never felt compelled to trade their best player.

Not only is Paul Pierce [news] their best scorer (21.6 ppg), he is also their best rebounder (6.6 rpg) and generally their best passer (4.2 apg). Come to think of it, until rookie Al Jefferson matures, he's also their best post-up player.

But for a team that now has its sights set on the next step - be it the conference or league finals - director of basketball operations Danny Ainge will have to at least weigh the merits of a Pierce trade between now and next October.

Pierce, at 26 and in line to make $13.84 million, $15.1 million and an option year worth $16.36 million over the next three seasons, may already be at his peak value.

He shot a career-high 45.5 percent under Doc Rivers' system this season, though Pierce also chafed under his new coach. He wants to be the leader that his numbers (on the court and contractually) connote, but as Games 6 and 7 of the team's seven-game loss to the Pacers illustrated, Pierce has a growing tendency to melt down at the worst possible time. He can be disruptive - not good news for a management team attempting to instill a new philosophy and style.

Asked about remaining in Boston, Pierce has generally said the right thing in a rather unconvincing way.

There's nothing here that says Pierce will be traded. But there's no harm in taking a look at the marketplace.

You never know. Considering Ainge and his cold-blooded ability to do what's best for the team, there should be quite a market out there for the player who possesses the NBA's best combination of scoring and rebounding in a guard:

1. RAY ALLEN (Seattle, free agent, 28, 6-foot-5 shooting guard, 23.9 ppg, 3.7 apg last season): This would work as a sign-and-trade deal. Allen, who earned $14.6 million this season, was unable to reach an agreement with the Sonics on an extension, though negotiations were said to be civil. He's the NBA's premier shooter, and a career 44.6 percent shooter, but not as tough or durable as Pierce. He's a terrific passer, but a defensive liability. But if you're looking for someone who could fit into the lineup most seamlessly, this is probably the guy.

2. MICHAEL REDD (Milwaukee, free agent, 24, 6-6 shooting guard, 23.0 ppg, 4.2 rpg): A fledgling Allen, with perhaps even more explosive scoring potential, Redd is on the verge of an outstanding career. Unlike Allen, who could easily re-sign with the Sonics, Redd appears committed to signing with another team next season. He was a bargain for owner Sen. Herb Kohl at $3 million last year, but has his eyes set on the sort of max contract that could match Pierce's numbers. Again, this is a sign-and-trade option.

3. RON ARTEST (Indiana, 24, 6-7 small forward, 24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg): Don't laugh. General managers have been attempting to pry the ultra-talented forward away from Larry Bird with a lot less than Pierce has to offer. The drawbacks are obvious. You're trading Pierce's oft-conflicted pouting for Artest's gone-postal tendencies. There also isn't a better defender in basketball. Ainge has often talked about adding or developing a so-called ``Power 3.'' Artest defines the job. Creativity would also be needed to make the numbers match. Another reason Bird likes Artest? He's a bargain at $6.5 million, $7.15M, $7.8M and a player option of $8.45M over the next four seasons.