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View Full Version : Odd thoughts round 2 game 1.....



Peck
05-10-2005, 01:35 AM
I'm not trying to blow smoke up nobody's @ss with this but I just don't feel that bad about the loss.

Until we melted down in the late in the 3rd we were still within striking distance. For as good as Detroit was playing & as bad as we were playing they never really put us away for good until late in the game. Now you could argue that we never had a chance because we kept trying to come out of a hole & I won't disagree, but I still like our chances.

I give Detroit all of the credit in the world because they played like Champs for the most part, but we still got up shots & we just couldn't hit them. Fred Jones 0-6 with two of them being layups he just missed. Jax was the same way.

I'm not saying Detroit didn't deserve to win, they did, but I just feel as though if a couple of our open looks would have fallen we might be looking at a whole new ballgame.

So, hats off to Detroit. They were ready & they played well.

It's now on us to make a move.

FWIW I just can't beleive how people sometimes are so willing to write our team off or throw players to the wind after one bad game. We lost big in Boston as well, but we adjusted. We can still adjust here too.

Ok, let's look at this.

I have a problem & it is a huge problem with Rick Carlisle. I have always & I mean always blamed Reggie Miller for deferring. I assumed Rick wanted J.O. as the first option but I just always assumed Rick wanted Reggie to be more active than he was over the previous seasons.

Then came tonights post game press conferance.

I will now quote Larry Brown about Reggie Miller

"I donít think they ran a lot of stuff for him (Reggie Miller) to be honest. I thought they went to (Steven) Jackson and Jermaine (OíNeal) in the post, and (in the second half) to Jamaal (Tinsley) on a lot of pick and rolls. I didnít see Reggie (Miller) involved as much as he normally is."

Now I am going to paraphrase Reggie Miller in his post game press conf.

Jermaine is the first option & Steve is the second option & with both of them back I understand that I become the third option.

Now that is paraphrased from the best of my memory, if somebody has a transcript of that or remember it differantley please put it here.

But those two statements disgust me beyond belief. He shot the ball 7 times.

SEVEN times in 30 min. of play. Our shooting guard shot the ball 7 times.

Now in the past I have always been willing to blame Reggie. But with what Brown said & with the way Reggie said it I am furious with Carlisle about this.

Did he not see how well we did when the offense was diverse? Did he not see how miserable it was tonight in the second half to see those stupid idiotic isolation plays we run.

Point of order here. If you are going to run isolation plays shouldn't you at least have a player who can create his own shot consistantly? Jamaal is about best we have at that & sometimes Jax can do it but other than that....

If this is Carlisle's way of forcing this crap back down our throats then I'm not very happy about it. I know I know low post games win. blah blah blah.

Diverse offensive stratgies win as well & with our team we are always better when we don't force it into O'neal & everybody stand arounds & watchs.

7 shots :disappoin

Ok Dale was outplayed by the D.P.O.Y. Now everybody once again wants to lynch him.

I'll make you guys a deal. I won't come on here & remind you every single post that there would be no post season without Dale Davis if you agree that everytime he doesn't outplay his man that Jeff Foster, Scot Pollard, John Edwards, etc. shouldn't be starting over Dale.

Ben Wallace was on fire & it didn't matter who guarded him. If it was J.O., Dale or even Foster.

The one thing that Dale has lost over the years & it's simply due to age is not his first jump but he virtually has no second jump & that is where Wallace just killed him tonight.

So they are 1-1 this season because as bad as Dale looked tonight Ben looked that way the last time they played.

For the record I wasn't happy with Dale, although the one side shot Reggie did get open to get was off of a hard Dale screen to Hamilton. But he has to play much much much better if we are going to compete in this series.

Jermaine O'Neal. I hate when he plays one of his Portland mentors. They get in his head & he tries to push way to much & make it a game of one on one. Like the only way he will ever slay the dragon is by beating Rasheed in points. I wish he would just wake up tommorow & say I don't care if I don't score 10 points in the next game I'm getting 20 rebounds. But I know that ain't gonna happen. He did good in the first half but that was it. By the middle of the third quarter I was praying that we would play James Jones at the pf spot anybody for that matter just so we could get him out of the game. I hope he comes back bigger & stronger the next game.

Reggie Miller. I've already covered this. I now do NOT blame him for the lackluster game he had. He needs to get off 15 shots min. the next game & I only want to see maybe 2-3 tops of those being 3 point shots. Rip is faster than Reggie without a doubt but I still think Reggie can get his shots off.

Jamaal. Stop with the stupid 1st quarter fouls. This more than anything probably took us out of the game because God love A.J. but he just can't push it like the Tin man can. Keep taking it right up the middle at them next game as well.

*side note* you see this is why I'm really not that distressed by this game. We got almost any shot we wanted when we stopped with the "throw it to J.O." stuff. If any & I mean any of our guys could have hit a damn shot this game would have been a whole lot differant. *end side note*

Jax. :bananadea My God the amount of open shots this guys just flat out missed killed us. I'm not totally blaming him because there are just nights it won't drop. I am happy though that even though Prince is a killer defender Jax could still get off almost any shot he wanted.

Jeff Foster. He did a great job again tonight. Now before we all get goofy over starting Jeff I will point out one thing. The pistons took it to Jeff in the post every time they could, it was almost like a green light to go at him. He did good with his positioning & did cause some problems for them but for the most part both he & Croshere were used in the paint. He did board well & his offensive boards were very helpfull. He did play well though.

Fred Jones :bananadea Hit your damn shots you B@stard!!!!! :scream:

That's it pretty much in a nutshell.

I still feel good I still feel like we have a shot but we have to do a much better job of hitting your shots.

skyfire
05-10-2005, 02:08 AM
Great post as usual Peck.

I think your spot on about Reg needing to get more shots. By running him off screens and him taking shots, it has to take away from the effectiveness of Rip and we need everything we can to stop him. If Rip runs into DD every few plays then it will have to sap his energy abit.

We also need JO being the allround superstar we saw at time against Boston when his shot wasn't working. When he is boxing out, hitting the boards and diving on the floor it permeates to the rest of the team. If JO cant get good enough passes out of the post against the Piston defense then we have to get him the ball in different spots because he wont be at his most effective playing isolation down low against the Wallaces.

I think we should be aiming to have 15 shots each for JO, Reg and Jax and about 10 for Tins. The Pistons are very good at reacting to our offense, so we will need to mix it up and keep them guessing.

cramerica
05-10-2005, 02:08 AM
Peck, good stuff as always. I just want to point out some things.

I don't think people don't want Dale to start. I like him starting. However, I like Jeff getting the minutes. I've been telling my wife that Jeff should be getting the load of minutes because of his energy and effort. Sometimes it seems Dale is in quick sand.

But this night was not about Dale. This night was about the Pistons handing it to us and Ben Wallace going KG on us. You're right, nobody could guard that guy and man was it pissing me off. But hats off to them.

I thought Jamaal did a good job in the second half, but his first half fouls KILLED US.

One point about the clock issue at the end of the 1st half is that JO would of gotten that shot off by the end of the clock. He's not a moron and knows how to shoot it before the clock expires. Secondly, that was a HUGE momentum killer. Granted, we were going to be down by 11, but we could of went into that locker room on a high note. Instead, they score 3 points and JO picks up a foul. Talk about the worst thing that could of happened and it ALL could of been avoided if the refs were doing there job.

We can't play this bad and hopefully Ben won't play that good for game 2. One thing that concerns me is that Sheed only had 11 and went 3-13.

Anthem
05-10-2005, 02:13 AM
I still feel good I still feel like we have a shot but we have to do a much better job of hitting your shots.

Great post, Peck. And if it makes you feel any better, I wasn't too down on Dale. I was up on Foster, but for Dale I just kinda thought tonight wasn't his night. Ben's a great player, and the last time they played Dale owned him. Tonight Ben came out ready to return the favor. Nothing I've seen makes me think he can keep that up for a series.

Along the same lines, nothing makes me think we'll continue to shoot this poorly for the series either. Besides some crazy officiating, there's not too much that really upset me tonight. I'm stoic because I didn't expect to get out of this round, but now that I've seen the enemy I'm not impressed.

The Pistons do not scare me.

cramerica
05-10-2005, 02:16 AM
The Pistons do not scare me.

The only team that scares me is the Suns. But I'm with you on that quote.

Bball
05-10-2005, 02:25 AM
Peck,
Let me save some bandwidth and just say "Ditto". I agree absolutely 100%.

-Bball

Suaveness
05-10-2005, 03:05 AM
I really feel as though if Jackson hits his shots, we are in great shape. Like I said before, the guy can get whatever he wants. Even against Prince.

Reggie needs to shoot more like you said, and it really surprised me that Carlisle was the one limiting him.

SycamoreKen
05-10-2005, 05:31 AM
Jermaine O'Neal. I hate when he plays one of his Portland mentors. They get in his head & he tries to push way to much & make it a game of one on one. Like the only way he will ever slay the dragon is by beating Rasheed in points. I wish he would just wake up tommorow & say I don't care if I don't score 10 points in the next game I'm getting 20 rebounds. But I know that ain't gonna happen. He did good in the first half but that was it. By the middle of the third quarter I was praying that we would play James Jones at the pf spot anybody for that matter just so we could get him out of the game. I hope he comes back bigger & stronger the next game.



Brown needs to pull JO aside and show him some tape of Duncan. TD lets the game come to him like no other super star in the league. he takes what is given and doesn't care if he isn't touching it every time. There is no dobt he is the most important player, he just doesn't need to prove it to feed his ego. JO is getting there, but the offense could use the motion San Antonio uses as well, so maybe they go hand in hand.

ABADays
05-10-2005, 08:50 AM
Unfortunately, I only got to see bits and pieces of the game. But every time I did it looked we were making awful passes getting picked off. How many turnovers did we end up with?

Unclebuck
05-10-2005, 09:05 AM
Peck, did you see Rick's post game press conference. he admitted they probably went to J.O. too often in the first half. I understad why they did, he was hot early and Tinsley was on the bench.

I think Reggie should be the 3rd option with J.O. being the first and Jax being the second.

Pacers need to run a ton of pick and rolls against the Pistons

brich
05-10-2005, 09:12 AM
Good post as usual Peck.

You are totally right about Jermaine getting into one on one mentality versus his former Trailblazer teammates. He does this everytime. I actually was fooled into thinking it was a good thing for awhile during the first half, but when our offense became one dimensional and Jermaine was taking on double-teams, I realized it was bad long term strategy.

Your points about Reggie are dead on also. Carlisle should know that the only way that we can beat these guys is if we get our offense running as well as it can run. We have a great defense, but it certainly is no better than Detroit's, and it is probably worse. Our offense has to be better than Detroit's. It won't be if we turn our offense into Isolation hour. Detroit is too well coached, too experienced, and too talented for us to approach them like we did.

Reggie, and really, everybody, needs to be involved on offense. Jermaine is absolutely key, but he will have an easier time scoring himself if he can get the rest of the team involved on offense. I honestly think that many of our turnovers are because some of our role players are absolutely shocked that somebody has passed the ball to them.

indygeezer
05-10-2005, 09:13 AM
Ditto, Peck. Except I'm gonna cautiously add my 2 cents (my smilies don't work at home).

You mentioned it so here goes. CARLISLE YOU...no that's going too far, I'll REALLY go off if I do that.

Reggie Miller has NO PLACE EVER taking the back seat to Stephen Jackson. Jackson has shown nothing but the ability to be a streaky shooter and most of the time he is off. I honestly consider him to be a poor mans Jalen Rose with a worse attitude. Reggie getting 7 shots is criminal...either some plays need to be run for him or RM needs to become selfish and break off plays like other players do. If we're going to be throwing up bricks I want our best bricklayer doing it, not some journeyman. (In fairness, I thought there was some pretty good defense played on RM last night too, they bodied up on him and didn't let him get open that often).

If Freddie Jones is hurting, leave him on the bench, he ain't helping a thing out there...give the minutes to JJ.

I have thought about our post...but I'll save em for after theseason. I find your comment about the second jump interesting. I'll watch that closer, I know he doesn't have the hops to complete a play under the basket after an O-rebound.

I'm a bit suprised that the Pistons played that well tho. 6 days rest tends to make most teams play a bit rusty and the Pacers were into an nice day-off between games routine that they should have been comfortable with.

It still appears to me, that after clinching the play-off position, we lost a lot of our energy (enthusiasm???). Like making them waws our primary goal and now we don't have the energy left to fully compete (4 games v. Celticcs not withstanding).

Not too discouraged yet...one nice thing though, I don't have to listen to them drone on about how the PAcers have never won a series after losing the first game...:) That's a good thing.

Unclebuck
05-10-2005, 09:21 AM
Did you know the Pacers have never ever lost a second round NBA playoff series. Pacers are 5-0 in second round series


Because I did not have time to post a preview of this series, I have not posted this yet. if you look at the starting 5's. The Pistons have the advantage at 4 of the 5 positions. And at the only position the pacers have the edge it is not that great of an advantage especially since J.O. is not healthy.

indygeezer
05-10-2005, 09:24 AM
Did you know the Pacers have never ever lost a second round NBA playoff series. 5-0


I'll lay you odds that NO NBA team has ever lost a second round series 5-0.

Let's say for $50.00

ChicagoJ
05-10-2005, 09:57 AM
I think its easy to read too much into Game #1 of what will be a long series.

Therefore, I'm not going to say much until Game #2. Except, of course, if we don't make any adjustments, don't hit our shots, keep Tinsley in foul trouble and get physically man-handled, Detroit will sweep us 4-0.

:dunce:

grace
05-10-2005, 10:42 AM
The series doesn't really start until the home team loses a game. When that happens I'll get excited.

abington
05-10-2005, 10:48 AM
The series doesn't really start until the home team loses a game. When that happens I'll get excited.


yeah, but the concern from these parts is that it will happen at game 3.

grace
05-10-2005, 11:16 AM
yeah, but the concern from these parts is that it will happen at game 3.

Yes, but I choose not to obsess about it until after game 2.

Unclebuck
05-10-2005, 11:18 AM
The series doesn't really start until the home team loses a game. When that happens I'll get excited.



I know that is a prevailing theory and I fully understand, but I have never fully bought it. Do you realize a series could be over before it "really starts"

My prevailing theory is that every playoff game is huge no matter where its played.

But my favorite theory - the team that wins the last game of a series has never lost a series. 100% of the time, no exceptions

Anthem
05-10-2005, 11:28 AM
But my favorite theory - the team that wins the last game of a series has never lost a series. 100% of the time, no exceptions

UB, your crackpot theories get weirder and weirder. :flirt:

Unclebuck
05-10-2005, 11:31 AM
UB, your crackpot theories get weirder and weirder. :flirt:


That's the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me

WEST
05-10-2005, 11:55 AM
I agree that when JO plays one of his Portland mentors he tries to do way too much, but I think it goes way beyond that. Right now JO has an ego that is more important to him than the team. His comments during the Boston series about not letting them disrespect them is more evidence of this. JO is the superstar of this team and they're only going to go as far as he takes them. He needs to put his ego aside and be a team player.

pb777
05-10-2005, 12:28 PM
After a game, I look forward to reading 2 things - the Box Score and Peck's odd thoughts. Great post as usual Peck. :bowdown: You were able to explain several elements of the game that had me confused.

Here's my :twocents:

We were called for 29 fouls to their 22, but the they got to the line way on almost every foul - 40 times. We got to the line 24 times. Lucky for us 15 of their 40 attempts were by Ben and he only hit 5 of those.

We shot less than 40% and when we shoot that poorly we lose, plain and simple. We have got to hit more shots. I couldnt believe all the open looks we missed. This will improve, it always dose.

Honestly, I didnt expect a win in game 1, just a good competition. I think we competed, and I'm sure RC is making adjustments as we speak. Game 2 is ours for the taking. It's time for LB and the Piston's to be on their heels. We are 2-1 this year in the Palace. After Wednesday we will be 3-1.

flakcatcher
05-10-2005, 12:30 PM
I understand the frustration with Reggie deferring to Jermaine and SJax -- in this game, I think even Tinsley (playing like he's in his mid-seventies, as Kravitz wrote today) took as many or more shots than Reg. But for Reggie to get off as many high percentage shots as the aforementioned players, he HAS to be open.

Reggie cannot, unless he is ON FIRE -- which hasn't happened since that Boston blowout where he went off -- create his own shot. If his shot is contested, it's going to brick off the rim or perhaps even go flying behind the backboard.

The level of defense that Detroit plays is far, far superior to that of Boston. So unless Reggie comes out and wills himself to take the game over, and somehow have one more of those unbelievable throw-back nights, I don't see him taking more than ten shots in a game the whole series long.

I don't like either, but I think that's pretty much how it is.

waterjater
05-10-2005, 01:24 PM
Dang Peck!! What a great post!! My thoughts exactly with no exceptions whatsoever.

Lets take what the Pistons defense gives us (open shots) and knock em' down!

Water

beast23
05-10-2005, 01:42 PM
I believe that that best all-around OFFENSIVE game I've ever seen JO play was Game 7 against Boston.

This bit about JO being option 1, Jax being option 2 and Reggie being option 3 is pure crap! It is fine as a general guideline and certainly dictates where your touches are going to occur. But it shouldn't have GD thing to do with who is taking the shots!

Folks, we're in a playoff series where each possession must be played as though it may be our last. That means that within each possession we are looking for the best, highest percentage shot we can earn. And it doesn't matter who takes it.

For example, I have a lot more faith in Reggie shooter a floater while trying to draw the foul or even an open 25-footer than Jermaine taking a 15-foot shot when closely guarded by Ben. I think that jacking up an open 3-pointer with 15 seconds to go on the shot clock is USUALLY (not always, but usually) a bad idea.

Through our experience in playing the Pistions, it seems like it is very easy to raise the level of BWallace's emotions during a game. Ben is an absolutely crappy foul shooter. I'd use that to our advantage. If we need a designated hacker, than so be it. But by god, I'd beat the crap out of Ben rather than give him a shot inside of about 8 feet. I'd go up strong on the shot and give the hit if that's the only way to prevent him from scoring. I'm not saying dirty fouling, but enough to assure that he will be sore the next morning.

I think that's one of the keys to getting our guys to the line. Ben feels he's being played over-aggressively, and he will approach defense the same way on the other end. I think that's to our advantage.

It's time to get serious, and I think that our gamesmanship in Game 1 was severely lacking. Detroit had their way with us way too easily. You'd expect two of the most physical teams in the league to play exactly that way... physically.

It's time for WW III.

Arcadian
05-10-2005, 01:43 PM
Because of detriot's lenght I don't know if Reggie's coming off screens would be as effective. Their frontline can close on him faster than any other team.

Detriot is a rare combination of smart and athletic. Ball movement will just be hard for that reason. But where I thought we lost the game was our defense. If they get fastbreaks and second chance points it will be a short series.

Also Ben is a special player. He is what makes the Pistons great. He maybe the hardest players to come up with a game plan to stop.

Will Galen
05-10-2005, 01:54 PM
Best three point shooter of all time and Rick wants him as third option? Just saying it sounds wrong.

Like Beast, I don't think we should have a first, second, and third option. That's to set in stone. We've already seen that equal opportunity works best.

Besides that most of JO's shots are 15 footers. Who would you rather be taking 15 footers, JO, or Reggie.

ChicagoJ
05-10-2005, 02:41 PM
-snip-
Here's my :twocents:

We were called for 29 fouls to their 22, but the they got to the line way on almost every foul - 40 times. We got to the line 24 times. Lucky for us 15 of their 40 attempts were by Ben and he only hit 5 of those.




Okay, we really need a Homer Simpson smiley.

I really thought that the Pistons were much more physical with us than we were with them. Granted, we committed more 'hacking' fouls but there were numerous instances where Ben was allowed to run over or through our guys to get the ball that were uncalled. I didn't think the officiating was necessarily bad, but from my perspective both teams probably committed 40 fouls each and they got away with a few more than we did - again, admittedly because we spent a lot of time hacking with our arms while they just ran us over. "Quicker to the ball", my butt.


[More Homer]Ben gets calls in a way that really p!$$es me off... much like Jordan - who already had the quickest first step in the league - would be allowed to carry the ball/ travel. He didn't need that advantage because he was already quicker/ better. Likewise, Ben doesn't need that advantage because he's already stronger. [/Mr. Simpson]


[I can't help myself]:censored: Ben Wallace [/Tell me how you really feel]

Bball
05-10-2005, 02:47 PM
If we hadn't seen that period of games with JO out and Reggie once again a major cog in our offense then I'd be inclined to say Carlisle knows Reggie is 'used up' and can't perform as a major piece of the offense any longer.

But the problem is that we did see it. We did see Reggie able to perform at a high level consistently and aggressively. We beat the Pistons doing it. It's his last go 'round... let's see it again... what do we have to lose? Reggie is much more apt to find his rhythm when he's part of the offense and asked to contribute.

Funny, his drop off coincided with JO's reinsertion back in the lineup.

-Bball

Anthem
05-10-2005, 02:53 PM
Funny, his drop off coincided with JO's reinsertion back in the lineup.

And the 60 points in 2 games was what, exactly?

pb777
05-10-2005, 02:57 PM
-snip-
We did see Reggie able to perform at a high level consistently and aggressively. We beat the Pistons doing it. It's his last go 'round... let's see it again... what do we have to lose? Reggie is much more apt to find his rhythm when he's part of the offense and asked to contribute.
-snip-

-Bball
I agree with you 100%. Last reg season game in the Palace, Reggie went off. Now, #31 should have enough left in the tank to give it to his emulator rip. Here's to hoping for a few more Miller Moments in this series.

Unclebuck
05-10-2005, 03:08 PM
I think Reggie's drop in points, at least in the Celtics series, coincided with Payton guarding him as much as anything else. Payton guarded him in games 4,5,6,7

Bball
05-10-2005, 03:15 PM
And the 60 points in 2 games was what, exactly?

...a reminder...

Bball

3Ball
05-10-2005, 03:42 PM
It's not a surprise that we lost this game, and it's not a big surprise that it was a (minor) blowout. If we steal one of two from them at home, then we have accomplished something HUGE. We've managed to come back every time from bad losses, so maybe we can do it one more time.

WEST
05-10-2005, 06:25 PM
I was extremely impressed with B.Wallace. He did absolutly everything he could to help his team win. He offense was most impressive because nobody expected that from him, but he made some other awesome plays too.The putback in the air off a missed shot was amazing, the steal from Tins at the top of the key was impressive, and his allaround D and rebounding was the as good as it could have possibly been. He wore JO down and basically took him out of the game. The scary thing about Detroit is if you take one thing away it opens things up for others. I hope RC has something up his sleeve for game 2 and we need to hit open shots as well.

As much as I hate Ben Wallace, he deserves alot of credit.

Diamond Dave
05-10-2005, 06:27 PM
I was extremely impressed with B.Wallace. He did absolutly everything he could to help his team win. He offense was most impressive because nobody expected that from him, but he made some other awesome plays too.The putback in the air off a missed shot was amazing, the steal from Tins at the top of the key was impressive, and his allaround D and rebounding was the as good as it could have possibly been. He wore JO down and basically took him out of the game. The scary thing about Detroit is if you take one thing away it opens things up for others. I hope RC has something up his sleeve for game 2 and we need to hit open shots as well.

As much as I hate Ben Wallace, he deserves alot of credit.

Yeah he did play a great game, but that particular play he used Dale as a ladder.

ChicagoJ
05-10-2005, 06:47 PM
The steal from Tinsley at the top of the key??? He ran right through Tinsley with no foul call.

Kstat can try to justify that all he wants, ("they were both chasing the ball" :rolleyes: ) but that wasn't a loose ball that was a pass and Tinsley has the right to not be run over by a truck. That was a foul and that was the worst no-call of the night, including the climb DD like a ladder play.

Kstat
05-10-2005, 06:55 PM
The steal from Tinsley at the top of the key??? He ran right through Tinsley with no foul call.

Kstat can try to justify that all he wants, ("they were both chasing the ball" :rolleyes: ) but that wasn't a loose ball that was a pass and Tinsley has the right to not be run over by a truck. That was a foul and that was the worst no-call of the night, including the climb DD like a ladder play.

I don't try to justify anything. I don't get hung up on the referees, win or lose. Bad calls went our way, bad calls went your way. You cant control human error. I know this. The coaches know this. The players know this. Thats why none of them complained about the refs in game 1. The referees have been, and always will be, a non-issue to me. Either my team is good enough to win, or they're not.

I refuse to cry like Doc rivers over every little call. As I said before the series, I'm taking the high road. If we lose, I'm not going to be a crybaby and blame bad calls for my own team's failures.

This isnt a direct response to you, Jay, just in general.

Bball
05-10-2005, 07:08 PM
I don't try to justify anything. I don't get hung up on the referees, win or lose. Bad calls went our way, bad calls went your way. You cant control human error. I know this. The coaches know this. The players know this. Thats why none of them complained about the refs in game 1. The referees have been, and always will be, a non-issue to me. Either my team is good enough to win, or they're not.

I refuse to cry like Doc rivers over every little call. As I said before the series, I'm taking the high road. If we lose, I'm not going to be a crybaby and blame bad calls for my own team's failures.

This isnt a direct response to you, Jay, just in general.

Easy to say when you've got the high number on the scoreboard.....

-Bball

Kstat
05-10-2005, 07:13 PM
Easy to say when you've got the high number on the scoreboard.....

-Bball
I've been saying it ever since I came here. Anybody who's been here the last 2 1/2 years knows that. Heck, I've been saying it for 18 years, through the boston garden, which was the biggest homecourt advantage in the history of sports, through the "Jordan rules" years, through getting knocked out of the first round five times in a row......

You have LJ. I have game 6 in 1988. The difference is, I bite my tongue and just admit the other team was a little bit better on that night.

I get ticked over bad calls just like everyone else, but when the final buzzer sounds, I forget about it and move on.

I also have the greatest amount of respect for NBA officials, who have a harder job, and get attacked more than ANY other officials in this country. I refuse to condemn them because they're human.

On %90 of whistles in the NBA, half the fans watching the game think it was a bad call, no matter WHAT the call is. And i'll admit they're the worst in sports when I see MLB or NFL referees suit up in an NBA game and do a better job.

ChicagoJ
05-10-2005, 07:31 PM
Eh, I've only got a problem with two calls, the ones mentioned above. Clearly there was much more to that thumping than two calls from from pretty good refs (Jim Clark in particular, but Bernie Fryar isn't bad)

Grey
05-10-2005, 07:51 PM
I'll lay you odds that NO NBA team has ever lost a second round series 5-0.

Let's say for $50.00

I think UncleBuck meant the Pacers have made it to the second round five times in their history and have won all five series (5-0).

Harmonica
05-10-2005, 09:06 PM
It's not a surprise that we lost this game, and it's not a big surprise that it was a (minor) blowout. If we steal one of two from them at home, then we have accomplished something HUGE. We've managed to come back every time from bad losses, so maybe we can do it one more time.

I'm not a pessimist, but it's highly unlikely we will win the two games in a row needed to take this series, even if we take one on their court. Detroit is just too tough. And they will beat us in Conseco.

Anthem
05-10-2005, 09:17 PM
I think Reggie's drop in points, at least in the Celtics series, coincided with Payton guarding him as much as anything else. Payton guarded him in games 4,5,6,7

Yup.

Of course, Rip's a good defender too. And he wears Reggie out to boot.

shags
05-10-2005, 09:22 PM
I'm not a pessimist, but it's highly unlikely we will win the two games in a row needed to take this series, even if we take one on their court. Detroit is just too tough. And they will beat us in Conseco.

KStat called me the Pistons' fans version of Indytoad, but I'm very confident that the Pistons will win one game in Conseco Fieldhouse over the weekend.

With that in mind, doesn't that make Game 2 almost a must-win for the Pacers to have any chance of winning the series?

Bball
05-10-2005, 09:39 PM
KStat called me the Pistons' fans version of Indytoad, but I'm very confident that the Pistons will win one game in Conseco Fieldhouse over the weekend.

With that in mind, doesn't that make Game 2 almost a must-win for the Pacers to have any chance of winning the series?

I think we need to actually lose a home game before we (Pacer fans) can declare a game a 'must win'...

And IF we are going to lose a home game then that doesn't bode well for the series because that makes beating Detroit a tough row to hoe. We really can't lose at home IMHO.

I'd prefer to play game 2 before thinking much at all about game 3 (or 4).


-Bball

indytoad
05-10-2005, 10:18 PM
Going back a few posts, about the worst thing that could've happened in this game was JO getting hot at the beginning. I think the only person who thought those shots were going to keep falling was him. I'm starting to worry about his ego - I thought he was getting it under control last season but he's really regressed this year. He'd better hurry up - he's what, 26? He's only got 2 or 3 years left in his prime to grow up. If he doesn't we're gonna be sunk, what with him being the leader and all.

IndyToad
Offering free entres

WEST
05-10-2005, 10:28 PM
I agree that when JO plays one of his Portland mentors he tries to do way too much, but I think it goes way beyond that. Right now JO has an ego that is more important to him than the team. He comments during the Boston series about not letting them disrespect them is more evidence of this. JO is the superstar of this team and they're only going to go as far as he takes them. He needs to put his ego aside and be a team player.

Thats what I said earlier in the thread. I agree with you indytoad. Either he fixes his ego problem or we need to be talking about dealing him, not Ron.

Anthem
05-10-2005, 11:06 PM
Going back a few posts, about the worst thing that could've happened in this game was JO getting hot at the beginning. I think the only person who thought those shots were going to keep falling was him. I'm starting to worry about his ego - I thought he was getting it under control last season but he's really regressed this year. He'd better hurry up - he's what, 26? He's only got 2 or 3 years left in his prime to grow up. If he doesn't we're gonna be sunk, what with him being the leader and all.

Your pessimism seems different lately. I'm not sure what it is.

It's not as funny as usual, for one thing.

brichard
05-10-2005, 11:12 PM
At this point in his career Reggie is going to either have it, or not have it on given nights. And even when he doesn't have it, he is our most likely sympathy vote to go to the FT line. What made me so upset last night is that I saw an opportunity for Reggie to get going.

He got mad and then hit a floater. I was so ready to go on one of those Reggie rides. And if he starts getting it going he can single handedly change the makeup of our team. It isn't just b/c we get some perimeter scoring, but those guys play hard for the old man.

I understand that a shooter needs to shoot out of a slump, but if there is one thing this team should have learned by now, it is easy for a slump to last a whole game. They could have at least called his number a few more times last night to see if he could get it going. He certainly couldn't have been a worse option than JO or Jax last night.

And hey... everybody has an off night. But one of the definitions of insanity is to continue doing the same thing and expecting a different result. :banghead:

pb777
05-11-2005, 12:18 AM
At this point in his career Reggie is going to either have it, or not have it on given nights. And even when he doesn't have it, he is our most likely sympathy vote to go to the FT line. What made me so upset last night is that I saw an opportunity for Reggie to get going.

He got mad and then hit a floater. I was so ready to go on one of those Reggie rides. And if he starts getting it going he can single handedly change the makeup of our team. It isn't just b/c we get some perimeter scoring, but those guys play hard for the old man.

I understand that a shooter needs to shoot out of a slump, but if there is one thing this team should have learned by now, it is easy for a slump to last a whole game. They could have at least called his number a few more times last night to see if he could get it going. He certainly couldn't have been a worse option than JO or Jax last night.

And hey... everybody has an off night. But one of the definitions of insanity is to continue doing the same thing and expecting a different result. :banghead:
I was there with ya, standing in my living room hoping Reg would get in the zone and go off. Didnt happen though. :(

Here's a comparison: I'm a DJ. I play 4 to 5 nights a week in clubs.

Some nights I'm looking at my watch, playing records, and getting the crowd hype but I know I'm not playing at the level I'm capable. The crowd is happy, but I know I could have done better.

Then there are the nights when I'm on fire, on the tables and the mic - the club is bananas and time flies by. This is when I feel "in the zone". I cant control when it happens, it just happens. There is no special prep or even mental prepping that I do different from any other nights, the zone comes naturally and randomly. It usually comes about an hour into my set and I can ride it to the end of the night. When in the zone I do some amazing, really creative mixes (so I'm told). Some of these mixes I will record later on CD in the studio for remixes or mixtapes.

Maybe it's similar to what basketball players go thru. Like shooting out of a slump and getting hot.

My point is that if there are similarities - they cant control the streaky shooting. They can just believe, have faith, and pray that they get hot. I remember a game this year when Jax started off missing, but by the third he was hitting everything. I was ridiculous, 3's, layups, 15 footers, whatever he shot went in. That night he was in the zone. Reggie gets there a lot, every miller moment he has been there. He was there last series in games 2 and 3. Remember JO's game vs. Mil? right...

Just hope and believe that they will find their shot and mentally get into the zone. ****, if 3 of our starters could get there in the same night...we would be unstopable. But I'd be happy with just one a night, maybe 2.

:twocents: