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View Full Version : At year's end, does anybody miss Al?



McKeyFan
04-20-2005, 05:21 PM
I live in the Atlanta media market, and there are several year-end articles discussing the Hawk's horrid year-the first team since the 87 Clippers that failed to win back-to-back games.

Most articles include Harrington as the only piece to build around. That makes me feel good for Al, who I always liked personally. But, in terms of basketball, I've never had the least twinge of desiring to see him this year in a Pacer uniform. And if it meant, not having Jax, then I definitely have no regrets seeing Al gone.

Just wondering how everybody else felt at year's end.

Mushmouth
04-20-2005, 05:29 PM
I did notice how his incredibly high turnover rate (despite being hurt for part of the year)... I guess he was coming off the bench for a reason. Great team player off the bench, not a go-to-guy.

he stands out in the turnover list:

Most Turnovers
1. Allen Iverson - 344
2. Dwyane Wade - 321
3. Steve Francis - 310
4. Kobe Bryant - 264
5. LeBron James - 260
6. Antoine Walker - 251
7. Steve Nash - 245
8. Gilbert Arenas - 243
9. Stephon Marbury - 230
10. Paul Pierce - 225
11. Carmelo Anthony - 224
12. Kevin Garnett - 220
12. Andre Miller - 220
14. Richard Hamilton - 217
15. Tony Parker - 213
16. Al Harrington - 204
17. Ricky Davis - 203
17. Shaquille O'Neal - 203
17. Mike Bibby - 203
20. Tracy McGrady - 201

3ptmiller
04-20-2005, 05:32 PM
Al who? :devil:

Peck
04-20-2005, 05:33 PM
Let me chime in early before this devolves into the usual let's kick a former Pacer while he's gone thing.

Yes, to a degree I miss Al Harrington. He was a fierce competator & IMO I never questioned if he was trying. He often tried to hard & yes he took to many shots, but knowing what I know & knowing how the season went I thnk I would much rather have traded away another forward & kept Al.

Jaydawg2270
04-20-2005, 05:34 PM
I miss Al

SoupIsGood
04-20-2005, 05:38 PM
I always liked Al, but if it came to either him or Steve, I'd keep Steve.

3Ball
04-20-2005, 05:50 PM
Sure I miss Al. We've gone from a team last year that had 75 SFs to a team that DOESN'T HAVE A SINGLE SMALL FORWARD. Only a couple of 2 guards that are doing their best.

ABADays
04-20-2005, 05:56 PM
I barely gave Al a thought this year. Not that he's not a good guy - he's just not a Pacer.

Chest Rockwell
04-20-2005, 06:08 PM
Al Harrington is the caliber of player we'd get if we were to trade Artest this offseason. Would it be worth it?

SoupIsGood
04-20-2005, 06:23 PM
Al Harrington is the caliber of player we'd get if we were to trade Artest this offseason. Would it be worth it?

I'd consider us blessed by God if we got a player of Al's caliber for Ron.

ajbry
04-20-2005, 07:09 PM
I'd consider us blessed by God if we got a player of Al's caliber for Ron.

Agreed.

I liked Al, he was pretty dependable whenever a boost from the bench was needed. He got his wish, becoming a starter. Too bad it's a horrible situation.

Jermaniac
04-20-2005, 07:26 PM
Steve > Al and that speaks for me. I dont miss Al at all. He wanted to start well there you go Al you can start on the Hawks and win 15 games the whole year.

Arcadian
04-20-2005, 07:28 PM
I did notice how his incredibly high turnover rate (despite being hurt for part of the year)... I guess he was coming off the bench for a reason. Great team player off the bench, not a go-to-guy.

he stands out in the turnover list:

Most Turnovers
1. Allen Iverson - 344
2. Dwyane Wade - 321
3. Steve Francis - 310
4. Kobe Bryant - 264
5. LeBron James - 260
6. Antoine Walker - 251
7. Steve Nash - 245
8. Gilbert Arenas - 243
9. Stephon Marbury - 230
10. Paul Pierce - 225
11. Carmelo Anthony - 224
12. Kevin Garnett - 220
12. Andre Miller - 220
14. Richard Hamilton - 217
15. Tony Parker - 213
16. Al Harrington - 204
17. Ricky Davis - 203
17. Shaquille O'Neal - 203
17. Mike Bibby - 203
20. Tracy McGrady - 201

Are you suggesting the rest of the names on that list aren't go to guys?

I like Al, he might have been my favorite Pacer, but he isn't a Paceranymore. I have moved on and don't like spending my time playing what if.

PaceBalls
04-20-2005, 07:32 PM
I really miss his defense. It's a shame he didn't wanna stick around, he would've been a starter for most of the year. If only it coulda been JonBender for SJ /sigh

I gotta wonder though, would AL have jumped in the stands?

blanket
04-20-2005, 07:41 PM
I really miss his defense.

I miss Al's defense, too. In fact, I missed it during his last 2 years as a Pacer, too! :devil:

Doug in CO
04-20-2005, 10:25 PM
what bugged me about Al is he learned nothing from his mentor Tony Davis

Antonio said he regretted forcing a trade and going to a losing team to be a starter

I would guess that Al feels the same way about right now

hoopsforlife
04-20-2005, 11:01 PM
Is there a chance Al Alberts won't be back next year? I wouldn't miss him. I promise...

A-Train
04-20-2005, 11:26 PM
I'm happy with our team.

Bottom line... if you don't want to be a part of this team, you gotta go.

Ask Dale, Antonio and Jalen... they'll tell you. If you don't want to be a team player, the Pacers are more than willing to ship you out.

FiestyFosterFanatic
04-20-2005, 11:59 PM
I like both Al and Jax2. Al always looked like he was having a blast on the court, and I always liked his hustle. Sure he took alot of shots, but his job was to be the scorer off the bench. If I knew ahead of time how the season would go down, I wish we still had Al. I think Al would have been right there with Ron in the stands, if we had him instead of Jackson.

PaceBalls
04-21-2005, 12:17 AM
I miss Al's defense, too. In fact, I missed it during his last 2 years as a Pacer, too! :devil:

Al is a great defender, or was when he played with the Pacers. Last years team was one of the best ever.

Do any of you other folks think AL was a bad defender??
bah

PacerMan
04-21-2005, 12:22 AM
I'd consider us blessed by God if we got a player of Al's caliber for Ron.

Amen. It was a sad day in Pacers history when we traded Al and kept Ron.
Bet Larry's kicked himself 100 times for that boner.

PaceBalls
04-21-2005, 12:22 AM
All the things I didnt like about AL had nothing to do with his D, they had to do with his offense, the dreaded blackhole AL ISO plays, the getting blocked by the rim constantly, the turnovers... but all of those things he made up for on the defensive end. It was/is his only redeeming quality!

pacerwaala
04-21-2005, 12:25 AM
Let me chime in early before this devolves into the usual let's kick a former Pacer while he's gone thing.

Yes, to a degree I miss Al Harrington. He was a fierce competator & IMO I never questioned if he was trying. He often tried to hard & yes he took to many shots, but knowing what I know & knowing how the season went I thnk I would much rather have traded away another forward & kept Al.


I agree that AL always worked hard but I have to say that I do not miss him one bit. Even knowing how this season went I would not have wanted him here because with the loss of Ron, jermaine and SJax this team won because they played like a "team". Al would never have fit well with the team after the post brawl suspensions because I am not sure he ever was a team player.

AL was slow, took two minutes to launch a jumper and was not much of a defender. I do not miss him at all.

PacerMan
04-21-2005, 12:26 AM
Amazing how most forget our total lack of inside game when Jermaine when down.(still)
AL would have been huge for us this year. Jax is "ok", but nothing special. Would take Al anytime. Al up front and more minutes for Freddie would just fine with me.
Jermaine/Al/Dale............. Good gawd almighty!
(as usual, nobodies saying Ron isn't a better player, just that I don't want his problems on this team anymore)

TheSauceMaster
04-21-2005, 12:27 AM
Al's a great 6th man , a starter he is not and I don't think he ever will be.

To answer the question : No

PacerMan
04-21-2005, 12:29 AM
I agree that AL always worked hard but I have to say that I do not miss him one bit. Even knowing how this season went I would not have wanted him here because with the loss of Ron, jermaine and SJax this team won because they played like a "team". Al would never have fit well with the team after the post brawl suspensions because I am not sure he ever was a team player.

AL was slow, took two minutes to launch a jumper and was not much of a defender. I do not miss him at all.


Al was possibly the most loved guy on the team by his teammates. He was the emotional leader as well. The team reaction when he went down with his knee injury is well known and much written about. It was traumatic. You might want to search for some of that to get a better idea what AL was about!


Al was NEVER slow, except the year after the knee blew out. He was our BEST interior defender. I miss him a bunch.

brichard
04-21-2005, 10:15 AM
I miss Al the person b/c he was always smiling and seemed to be very well liked by all. I also think he really could hustle out there. He learned to "pull the chair" as good as anybody.

I just have this thing about inconsistent players, and I think Al falls in that category. He could give you some really good games and really bad games. And unfortunately, it seems that he saved his worse games for the playoffs.

However, I can't say that Jax has been the model of consistency either. At the end of the day I would still take Jax for a couple of reasons. 1.) He is a guard (which we despereately needed) and 2.) He can hit the three ball with more consistency than Al. All the best to Al though.

Anthem
04-21-2005, 11:03 AM
Al was NEVER slow, except the year after the knee blew out.

And every year after. He never attacked defense that way again.

PacerMan
04-21-2005, 02:40 PM
And every year after. He never attacked defense that way again.

Not. He couldn't chase 3's around like he could before the knee, but his energy on defense was AT TIMES amazing to me. Not many 6'9" 250lb guys can move better than he. Even now.
I'll take it (with a grain of salt) from those of you that see more games than I, that his effort was up and down.
But I saw games LAST YEAR where his defensive intensity, effort, and results, were nigh on amazing. And the game announcers agreed.

Graywolf_59
04-21-2005, 03:31 PM
I miss Big Al(Period)! Should have shipped Bender and kept Al!

ChicagoJ
04-21-2005, 03:47 PM
I've missed "Baby Al" - that high energy player that disappeared from the face of the earth. But I still don't know what "Big Al's" role would be. He's not quick enough to play SF and not big enough to be a PF.

Al vs. Paul Pierce at SF: :yikes:

Al vs. Duncan/ Garnett at PF: :suicide:

Which is why I said numerous times last summer that the Pacers really needed to trade both Ron and Al. To me, it wasn't an either/ or decision anymore. Ron needed to go away before he hurt the team again and Al needed to go away because we needed backcourt help.

As I've also said over-and-over... Al for SJax would be a better trade in my book if the other wing player weren't Ron. SJax is still wildly inconsistent from game-to-game, and at times he's turnover prone and has a poor shot selection. Other nights, he's the most effective perimeter *scorer* since Jalen Rose (but Jalen was a model for consistentency vs. SJax). However, when he's paired with Ron - who you never know when he's going to be supsended, distracted, or on angelic behavior - they are not exactly the type of perimeter players that should compliment JO and Tinsley on a contender.

Kegboy
04-21-2005, 05:38 PM
I miss Al's defense, too. In fact, I missed it during his last 2 years as a Pacer, too! :devil:

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Tim
04-21-2005, 06:07 PM
Have you noticed that I haven't chipped in once with all this Al bashing going on?

I have really made progress (patting self on back).

Pacerman you are my hero!!!

McKeyFan
04-21-2005, 08:28 PM
It is certainly ironic that this is the one season where Al would have started nearly every game. If he had a crystal ball, I'm sure he would have stuck around. But I'll have to agree with that earlier post--good insight--that Al's mentality would have prevented that underdog team from accomplishing what it did as a TEAM.

I guess the strange thing for me is how the perception of Al Harrington the person seems so opposite from the reality of Al the player (on offense, anyway). I mean, how hard is it to understand that a fadeaway is a bad percentage shot? Al's intelligent. Why didn't he get it? I'm sure Rick and Larry talked to him about it. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm.

skyfire
04-21-2005, 10:06 PM
As I've also said over-and-over... Al for SJax would be a better trade in my book if the other wing player weren't Ron. SJax is still wildly inconsistent from game-to-game, and at times he's turnover prone and has a poor shot selection. Other nights, he's the most effective perimeter *scorer* since Jalen Rose (but Jalen was a model for consistentency vs. SJax). However, when he's paired with Ron - who you never know when he's going to be supsended, distracted, or on angelic behavior - they are not exactly the type of perimeter players that should compliment JO and Tinsley on a contender.

What your really saying is 'Al for SJax would be a better trade in my book if the other wing player wasn't Ron, who will go nuts again and force Jax to play SF until some patchup can be applied'.

If Ron and Jax are both on court together, then I think they are the perfect wing players to complement JO and Tins.

Jax's streakyness and inconsistency is amplified atm, cause he is being forced to take more shots than he would if Ron were playing. If he is the 3rd/4th option on offense and can pick and choose his opportunities, whilst sharing the ball with 2 legit post options then I think he will do fine.

Ron's faceup strength postgame is the perfect compliment to JO's back to the basket finesse post game.
Ron's tenacity, strength and quickness on perimeter defense is the perfect compliment to JO's weak side shotblocking.

It all hinges upon Ron's maturity, which I believe that he is and will continue to make the necessary steps to help the Pacers succeed. You are free to believe that he will screw up again and another season will be washed down the toilet, but arguing that Jax/Ron abilities dont fit with Tins/JO is a bit far fetched.

SoupIsGood
04-21-2005, 10:22 PM
With a line-up of Davis/O'Neal/Someone/Jackson/Tinsely, I think Joe Johnson would fit in very well. This is assuming he can play SF effectively, which I would think he could.

I don't think he will ever come here though.

ChicagoJ
04-21-2005, 10:40 PM
What your really saying is 'Al for SJax would be a better trade in my book if the other wing player wasn't Ron, who will go nuts again and force Jax to play SF until some patchup can be applied'.

If Ron and Jax are both on court together, then I think they are the perfect wing players to complement JO and Tins.

Jax's streakyness and inconsistency is amplified atm, cause he is being forced to take more shots than he would if Ron were playing. If he is the 3rd/4th option on offense and can pick and choose his opportunities, whilst sharing the ball with 2 legit post options then I think he will do fine.

Ron's faceup strength postgame is the perfect compliment to JO's back to the basket finesse post game.
Ron's tenacity, strength and quickness on perimeter defense is the perfect compliment to JO's weak side shotblocking.

It all hinges upon Ron's maturity, which I believe that he is and will continue to make the necessary steps to help the Pacers succeed. You are free to believe that he will screw up again and another season will be washed down the toilet, but arguing that Jax/Ron abilities dont fit with Tins/JO is a bit far fetched.

Interesting counter-points.

Again, I'd be okay with SJax alongside a dependable player. What Tinsley and JO need is a guy that can consistently get into double figures by using both a jumper and slashing ability. SJax can get you to 15 ppg by going for 24 - 8 - 28 - 5 - 10 over five games. Ron's just not dependable, period (except for this magical transformation that no one has seen but lots of you believe in). The two of them together yield inconsistent wing/ perimeter play.

You use some interesting oxy-morons, btw. I've never heard of a (low) post player facing the basket. If you're saying Ron plays the high post (basically the FT line), I've never seen him there. He generally faces up from the wing, or he plays from the low post occasionally when JO is on the bench (and fairly effectively for a 6'7" guy I might add).

And I can't really begin to imagine calling JO's post game "finesse". Are you saying that because he doesn't 'bowl over' defenders a la Shaq? That doesn't make him a finesse player. That spin move has a lot of speed and power, as does the jump hook. Let's not confuse "not relying solely on smashing through defenders" with "finesse." Al's fade-away from the low post was finesse. JO's fade-away is way down in his bag-of-tricks.

Said another way, if JO was playing with finesse, he'd never get decent post position in the first place. And he doesn't make finesse moves across the lane, he flat-out explodes through there.

I won't dispute the point that Ron's defense is an excellent compliment to JO. But as you noted, I don't believe Ron will ever play in enough important games for it to matter.

skyfire
04-21-2005, 11:26 PM
Every single post player in the NBA has to fight for position.
On a scale of Pau Gasol (finesse) to Shaq (power), JO would have to be alot closer to the finesse end of the scale. I'm not saying that JO doesn't use power in his game, but there is a significant amount of finesse in his game.

Al Harrington is an example of a post player that employs both back to the basket and face up play. JO uses alot more back to the basket, except when he gets forced out to the perimeter and is looking to shoot his jumper.

Ron's maturity in the past has been far from consistant.
When he has been on the court his play has been consistant.
He commonly faces up his defender on the wing and then can attack the post. Ron can play in the low post, but as you said it is usually when JO isn't in there. Which underlines why I think Ron and JO's post games complement each other well.

Post players that complement each other dont get in each others way. That can be high/low like BMiller/JO or wing/low for Ron/JO.

ChicagoJ
04-21-2005, 11:34 PM
Every single post player in the NBA has to fight for position.
On a scale of Pau Gasol (finesse) to Shaq (power), JO would have to be alot closer to the finesse end of the scale. I'm not saying that JO doesn't use power in his game, but there is a significant amount of finesse in his game.



I completely disagree, but oh well...

8.9_seconds
04-21-2005, 11:41 PM
I miss Al.......

In fact, I miss Travis Best too.I know that its been like 5 years since trading Best, but he was an awesome player for Indiana, he was a big help in the run for the Championship. I don't think that Indiana realizes what they have until it's gone, case in point, Dale Davis. I was soooooo happy to see him back, he has the intensity that we need and he always has.

skyfire
04-21-2005, 11:54 PM
It doesn't even matter to the point I was trying to make originally, that JO and Ron's post games complement each other cause they dont get in each other's way.

JO's offensive game is comprised of lots of aspects, speed, height, shooting touch with both hands, strong finishing. He has more finesse than Shaq and more power than Pau...