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View Full Version : How'd you feel about the offense with Jermaine back?



Anthem
04-18-2005, 02:33 AM
Well? I missed the game. Some thought we reverted, others noted how nice it was to have a low-post threat. We only scored 80 points, but then Miami has pretty good defense and it looked like we had some good shots we just didn't hit.

So Jermaine's back. Assuming this is as good as he gets (a bad assumption, IMO), does he help the offense or hurt it?

SoupIsGood
04-18-2005, 02:36 AM
I don't really care a whole lot about how the offense turns out, as long as it is not too extreme either way. I don't want to be jacking up 3's all game, and I also don't want Jermaine taking every shot.

I do have one request, however. I wish Jermaine would stray away from that 15-foot shot more often.

Bball
04-18-2005, 02:43 AM
If this is as good as it gets (JO) then we will be 0-4 in the playoffs...
I don't really think he helped us today. At least not much.

But he was REALLY rusty.... which is one reason I'm glad to get him back BEFORE the playoffs. I'd rather take the bruises now than burn a game or two in the playoffs to this rust.

-Bball

NorCal_Pacerfan
04-18-2005, 02:53 AM
I had the same question. I didn't get to see the game and I was wondering how he looked out there. I noticed on another post that he and DD didn't get much time together on the court.

I wonder if we'll be able to win these next two games. I sure hope we can get one of 'em. It'd be really sweet if we could get home court against Boston.

TheHotShot31
04-18-2005, 03:14 AM
I doubt we are gonna get home court since the Celtics won tonight and are 2 games ahead of us.

tate
04-18-2005, 04:35 AM
Well JO didnt have a very good game, like was said he looked pretty rusty out there, but I dont think he hurt us at all. He played with the bench guys most of the game, and those guys kept us in it, when the starters where out there is when the heat lead kept growing.

DisplacedKnick
04-18-2005, 07:55 AM
They didn't run the offense through him very much which was both good and bad - good because the movement stayed in the offense and bad because JO shot a bunch of jumpshots. I didn't see where the offense was very different when he was in - the Pacers didn't shoot very well either way.

Stryder
04-18-2005, 08:39 AM
I don't really care a whole lot about how the offense turns out, as long as it is not too extreme either way. I don't want to be jacking up 3's all game, and I also don't want Jermaine taking every shot.

I do have one request, however. I wish Jermaine would stray away from that 15-foot shot more often.

I've never understood how a guy that big and strong would want to stand outside and jack up 15 foot jump shots and fade-aways...

Take it inside, big man!

Unclebuck
04-18-2005, 08:41 AM
I feel much better about the offense now that J.O. is back. But he is in a no win situation. If and when the Pacers lose in the playoffs many will blame the return of J.O. Afterall they were 15-6 without him since March 3rd.

The offense with J.O will help, but I don't have a good feeling at all about the playoffs. Not to beat a dead horse, but the Pacers are running on fumes right now. Will the playoff rejuvinate them, maybe? But that is my fear, not whether J.O will fit back in and certainly not whether they go back to the "dump it into J.O every time" offense.

MagicRat
04-18-2005, 08:43 AM
I didn't get to see it, but I did hear Slick complain late in the game that they had reverted to standing around and watching JO...

Hicks
04-18-2005, 08:53 AM
I saw them alternating between "dump it to JO and watch" and what they've been running. The problem is only when JO posts up. That is when everyone stops moving. Otherwise it's either JO or Reggie or Jack taking a jumpshot most of the time, but there is movement.

DisplacedKnick
04-18-2005, 10:10 AM
I saw them alternating between "dump it to JO and watch" and what they've been running. The problem is only when JO posts up. That is when everyone stops moving. Otherwise it's either JO or Reggie or Jack taking a jumpshot most of the time, but there is movement.

Part of the problem is that unless your post player's a great passer, or even good - which JO isn't - movement while he's posting up doesn't do a lot of good and can screw things up if you bring a guy into double-teaming position.

Instead you try to space the floor and if the double comes move to the open spot.

With someone like Shaq or Duncan doubling can get you burned but not with JO.

Now part of his problem yesterday is that even when he was posting up he didn't have what I consider real good position - he was too far outside.

The Heat are not the easiest team for a post player to come back against after 20 plus games off - Orlando would be a better chance for him to find his rhythm.

Mushmouth
04-18-2005, 10:36 AM
It did grind down a little, but even before Jermaine was in the game, we seemed to be taking a leisurely Sunday drive. Never really felt urgency or the energy that had won us so many games the past couple weeks.

Either way, it was excellent to see him back, and he was able to take good shots. They'll fall in higher numbers the next few games. Glad he was able to come back yesterday, rather than try to fit in first game of the playoffs.

Bball
04-18-2005, 11:11 AM
Part of the problem is that unless your post player's a great passer, or even good - which JO isn't - movement while he's posting up doesn't do a lot of good and can screw things up if you bring a guy into double-teaming position.

Instead you try to space the floor and if the double comes move to the open spot.

With someone like Shaq or Duncan doubling can get you burned but not with JO.

Now part of his problem yesterday is that even when he was posting up he didn't have what I consider real good position - he was too far outside.

The Heat are not the easiest team for a post player to come back against after 20 plus games off - Orlando would be a better chance for him to find his rhythm.


...Pretty much says it all above...

-Bball

naptownmenace
04-18-2005, 11:13 AM
The Pacers had plenty of good looks and shots that they normally knock down but credit the Heat defense. This was the best defense that the Heat has played against the Pacers all season long and it was still a close game.

The Pacers actually played better when they had Jermaine on the floor than when he was on the bench. Foster played very well in limited minutes as well.

Jermaine made a nice outlet pass to JJ for a three after being double-teamed. It seemed that the Pacers guards had a really tough time feeding the post all game - once again credit the Heat's defense. It's not easy to get good post position on Alonzo Mourning. The guards also need to do a better job of getting him the ball earlier so he doesn't have to fight for position for 15 seconds or at least give him a couple of passes out of the pick-and-roll.

Jermaine was rusty but I didn't have a single problem with any of the shots he took. They all came within the flow of the offense and he didn't seem to rush anything.

Bball
04-18-2005, 11:32 AM
What I think has hurt is Freddie's offense has went into the tank. His outside shot has betrayed him. I assume this is due to the injury and I'm not sure there's enough time for it to heal and him regain his stroke and confidence.

-Bball

beast23
04-18-2005, 11:42 AM
Part of the problem is that unless your post player's a great passer, or even good - which JO isn't - movement while he's posting up doesn't do a lot of good and can screw things up if you bring a guy into double-teaming position.

Instead you try to space the floor and if the double comes move to the open spot.

With someone like Shaq or Duncan doubling can get you burned but not with JO.

Now part of his problem yesterday is that even when he was posting up he didn't have what I consider real good position - he was too far outside.

The Heat are not the easiest team for a post player to come back against after 20 plus games off - Orlando would be a better chance for him to find his rhythm.I pretty much agreed with Hicks' post.

And I agree that JO is not a great, or even a good, passer. That is exactly why I believe that he shouldn't stand on the post, chicken-fighting a defender for position.

Instead, he and the passer should work on their timing, where JO arrives at his point on the floor just a moment before the entry pass is made. He turns and either makes his move or he sends the ball back out to the guard and vacates his position.

Anything else and the paint will become cluttered, with little or no opportunity for the perimeter players to penetrate.

And that's what I though I saw in Q4 yesterday... little or no opportunity to penetrate.

If we are not hitting our perimeter shots, then JO with his feet nailed to the floor is NOT going to work in the post. It totally negates the guards from the offense if they are not hitting their outside shots.

ChicagoJ
04-18-2005, 11:42 AM
AJ's inability to pass the ball to the post was immediately exploited, so JO didn't exactly get the ball in good position very often.

AJ and JO are not a very good PG/PF tandem. AJ, like Travis Best before him, gets almost all of his assists when swinging the ball around the perimeter while the defense adjusts.

Naptown hit on an important point. Did you all see just how early in the offense Shaq got the ball during the first half? JO needs to get the ball sooner, either before the defender is set or with enough time for the perimeter players to set some off-the-ball screen/rolls.

ADDENDUM: We all acknowledge that JO isn't a great passer. Therefore, he needs his coaches and teammates to create 'easy passes' and passing lanes for him.

Unclebuck
04-18-2005, 12:47 PM
I might argue a little on J.O. passing. He is average at best passing out of double teams (part of the problem is his body type, he does not have a strong or wide base)
But I think in all other situations he is a good passer. He made a sweet pass to Foster who got fouled, but that was on a face-up situation

Bball
04-18-2005, 12:49 PM
ADDENDUM: We all acknowledge that JO isn't a great passer. Therefore, he needs his coaches and teammates to create 'easy passes' and passing lanes for him.

...And then he needs to use them or else things bog down.

-Bball

Suaveness
04-18-2005, 01:46 PM
I hope that somehow Jermaine could work on his passing. It would really help. But I am honestly worried...if we run the offense like we did yesterday, we certainly aren't going to win many games.

ABADays
04-18-2005, 06:45 PM
JO needs to get the ball sooner, either before the defender is set or with enough time for the perimeter players to set some off-the-ball screen/rolls.

Well that can't happen with AJ. He has to wait at the top of the key until everyone in the stands is sitting down before he starts the play. The non-dribbling Travis Best if you will.

Los Angeles
04-18-2005, 06:47 PM
Well that can't happen with AJ. He has to wait at the top of the key until everyone in the stands is sitting down before he starts the play. The non-dribbling Travis Best if you will.
Guess you have nothing to worry about next game.

Anthem
04-19-2005, 01:41 AM
:bump:

Bball
04-19-2005, 02:51 AM
Did I catch Slick complaing about reverting back to the 'throw it into JO offense and everyone standing around'?

I was watching on TV but the radio was on outside and I thought I caught a bit of that.

-Bball