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View Full Version : Fan just got into it with Sheffield in Boston- Beer Thrown



RSmits
04-14-2005, 09:53 PM
At the Sox / Yankees game, Sheffield was fielding a fly ball at the fence and a fan in the front row was either trying to grab the ball or trying to hit Sheffield. Sheffield swung back at him and another fan threw a beer on him. Watch the highlighrs, the immediate police presence was astounding. Detroit could take some lessons.

t-Bone
04-14-2005, 10:05 PM
Yes that security prescense was good. THey didnt let anything escalate. But again this is what happens when fans and alcohol mix. Also, Boston > DetrIot.:D

RSmits
04-14-2005, 10:10 PM
At first I thought the beer was spilled, then they kept showing it over and over and it was pretty clear the guy "tipped" it in Sheffield's direction. Also, think the fan was just drunk and stuck his arm out there with the rest of them. Then again, I hate the Yankees so maybe I'm defending the Red Sox fan. It will be VERY interesting to see if Sheffield's swing at the fan is portrayed as defending himself. Rest assured, the Pacers / Pistons highlights are getting the dust blown off them now.

Los Angeles
04-14-2005, 11:00 PM
I was at a bar watching live when this happened - it seemed half the place was from Boston and half the place was from New York (nobody is actually FROM Los Angeles, including me). I thought a brawl was going to break out right there.

After things died down, somebody brought up the Pacers - I gave him an "education". ;)

Kstat
04-14-2005, 11:05 PM
I'm still scratching my head. Why didn't sheffield jump into the stands and indescriminately start grabbing people? Where were the other outfielders? Dont they know that you're not a real teamate unless you jump into the stands and start slugging people?

This sheffield guy must be a total saint for not going into the stands. I mean, its human genetics to do that, right? I hear Charles Barkley, Tim duncan, and even Mother Theresa all said they would have charged the stands and gone berzerk.

Apparently, SHeffield and the Yankees do not "ride together." I wouldn't be surprised if they took separate buses to the games......

Peck
04-14-2005, 11:10 PM
I'm still scratching my head. Why didn't sheffield jump into the stands and indescriminately start grabbing people? Where were the other outfielders? Dont they know that you're not a real teamate unless you jump into the stands and start slugging people?


:lmao: Now that was funny.

canyoufeelit
04-14-2005, 11:17 PM
I'm still scratching my head. Why didn't sheffield jump into the stands and indescriminately start grabbing people? Where were the other outfielders? Dont they know that you're not a real teamate unless you jump into the stands and start slugging people?

This sheffield guy must be a total saint for not going into the stands. I mean, its human genetics to do that, right? I hear Charles Barkley, Tim duncan, and even Mother Theresa all said they would have charged the stands and gone berzerk.

Apparently, SHeffield and the Yankees do not "ride together." I wouldn't be surprised if they took separate buses to the games......

Post of the millenium right here folks. :laugh:

Unclebuck
04-14-2005, 11:18 PM
I'm still scratching my head. Why didn't sheffield jump into the stands and indescriminately start grabbing people? Where were the other outfielders? Dont they know that you're not a real teamate unless you jump into the stands and start slugging people?

This sheffield guy must be a total saint for not going into the stands. I mean, its human genetics to do that, right? I hear Charles Barkley, Tim duncan, and even Mother Theresa all said they would have charged the stands and gone berzerk.

Apparently, SHeffield and the Yankees do not "ride together." I wouldn't be surprised if they took separate buses to the games......


Funny but a little weak.

canyoufeelit
04-14-2005, 11:20 PM
The real question here is who is more likely to bring the dustpan out - Derek Jeter or Alex Rodriguez?

Kstat
04-14-2005, 11:28 PM
Ah, memories....

http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8711&page=1&highlight=free+btown


that thread should be forever preserved in gold. Thread of the year. No question

DisplacedKnick
04-15-2005, 12:02 AM
Yeah - I clicked on the link and had to re-read the whole thing.

Alabama-Redneck
04-15-2005, 12:09 AM
I'm still scratching my head. Why didn't sheffield jump into the stands and indescriminately start grabbing people? Where were the other outfielders? Dont they know that you're not a real teamate unless you jump into the stands and start slugging people?

This sheffield guy must be a total saint for not going into the stands. I mean, its human genetics to do that, right? I hear Charles Barkley, Tim duncan, and even Mother Theresa all said they would have charged the stands and gone berzerk.

Apparently, SHeffield and the Yankees do not "ride together." I wouldn't be surprised if they took separate buses to the games......

Actually, Sheffield started to go into the stands but something happened that people from Detroit have never seen and would not recognize. Security stepped in to take control like almost all stadiums and arenas do.

I have heard there are still a few places that do not adhere to that policy but who knows.

:D :cool:

Anthem
04-15-2005, 12:29 AM
Actually, Sheffield started to go into the stands but something happened that people from Detroit have never seen and would not recognize. Security stepped in to take control like almost all stadiums and arenas do.

Beat me to it!

Los Angeles
04-15-2005, 12:33 AM
:lurk:

shags
04-15-2005, 08:31 AM
Actually, Sheffield started to go into the stands but something happened that people from Detroit have never seen and would not recognize. Security stepped in to take control like almost all stadiums and arenas do.

I have heard there are still a few places that do not adhere to that policy but who knows.

:D :cool:

Actually, had Sheffield decided to clock that fan right after he threw the ball in, it wouldn't have mattered how quickly that security guard got over there. Sheffield's restraint, IMO, was the reason this incident wasn't any worse.

3ptmiller
04-15-2005, 08:38 AM
Yea i think in NBA we should have those big *** walls or some military fences or how bout making a big damn cage over the Court? Detroits new security hehe?

:zip:

Fool
04-15-2005, 08:38 AM
Actually, had Sheffield decided to clock that fan right after he threw the ball in, it wouldn't have mattered how quickly that security guard got over there. Sheffield's restraint, IMO, was the reason this incident wasn't any worse.

I agree. It was only after Shef clearly backed off that the security guard jumped in. Thats not a knock on the security, there was no reason to get there until Shef reacted to the guy.

Unclebuck
04-15-2005, 08:49 AM
There was no reason to go into the stands, the fan was right there


I should just stay out of this

able
04-15-2005, 09:07 AM
from newsday dot com:

Lucky for Sheffield, his return swing didn't appear to make solid contact with the fan he targeted. He didn't draw blood, though Sheffield admitted later he "felt" something after swinging.

Based on that performance, he won't be standing in for Mike Tyson anytime soon. But Sheffield did receive the benefit of favorable refereeing.

Sheffield should have been ejected but was allowed to remain in the game. The umpires, who had a rough night, apparently missed Sheffield's punch. But the incriminating tape is in the hands of the league office now.

Whether he drew blood or not, Sheffield should be suspended for actions unbecoming a big-league ballplayer. Sheffield's violent response was a stark overreaction to a fan's clumsiness.

This latest bit of ugliness started when Jason Varitek smoked a liner into the rightfield corner, and Sheffield played the ball so unaggressively it careened around the wall for many feet and several seconds, long enough to become a two-run triple for the slow-footed catcher. Just as Sheffield was finally reaching down to grab the rolling ball, a fan had the same idea.

The fan reached over the wall in an apparent attempt to gather the $9 baseball and nicked the $13-million-a-year Sheffield's face instead, sending the outfielder over the edge. That's when Sheffield finally decided to turn aggressive.

Still holding the baseball while Varitek chugged toward third, Sheffield wasted more time by swinging into the stands. Beer splattered as Sheffield swung.

Sheffield wasn't quite done, either. After finally heaving the ball into the infield, Sheffield charged back toward the wall, sending panicked fans scattering.

"I thought about going after him," Sheffield admitted later.

But then Sheffield said he thought of Pacers hothead Ron Artest, who went into the stands in Auburn Hills, Mich., and earned a year suspension.

Sheffield needs to be punished, too. Ten games is about right. He shouldn't expect leniency from Bud Selig's men, either, since Sheffield once admitted purposely making errors as a member of Selig's Brewers team.

On the Artest Scale, Sheffield did show restraint by staying on the outfield side of the wall as teammates ran to his aid and a security person hopped over the fence to keep the peace. The police acted quickly, helping matters.

RSmits
04-15-2005, 09:41 AM
From the NY Post:

After the throw, Sheffield went toward the fan but held up as a security guard hurdled the wall and separated Sheffield from an angry mob.


Sheffield was ready to go into the stands.


"I thought about the consequences," Sheffield said.


And they were?


"Ron Artest," Sheffield said. "That's the first thing that came to my mind. I held up."

Unclebuck
04-15-2005, 09:46 AM
Artest is a hero, he kept the peace in Boston.

able
04-15-2005, 09:57 AM
Artest is a hero, he kept the peace in Boston.

absolutely priceless :D

Fool
04-15-2005, 10:06 AM
Artest is a hero, he kept the peace in Boston.

Very nice.

Harmonica
04-15-2005, 10:25 AM
I'm still scratching my head. Why didn't sheffield jump into the stands and indescriminately start grabbing people? Where were the other outfielders? Dont they know that you're not a real teamate unless you jump into the stands and start slugging people?

This sheffield guy must be a total saint for not going into the stands. I mean, its human genetics to do that, right? I hear Charles Barkley, Tim duncan, and even Mother Theresa all said they would have charged the stands and gone berzerk.

Apparently, SHeffield and the Yankees do not "ride together." I wouldn't be surprised if they took separate buses to the games......

Good one, Kstat.

You know what's even funnier? How Ron apologists will (probably) say you can't compare this incident to what happened in Detroit, but they'll readily bring up Vernon what's-his-name and other loose comparisons to justify Ron's actions and vilify Stern's recourse.

Unclebuck
04-15-2005, 10:32 AM
Good one, Kstat.

You know what's even funnier? How Ron apologists will (probably) say you can't compare this incident to what happened in Detroit, but they'll readily bring up Vernon what's-his-name and other loose comparisons to justify Ron's actions and vilify Stern's recourse.


Please find me a post, any post from anyone over the past 6 months that in anyway tries to justify Ron doing what he did. I know I've never tried to justify what he did. Just because some of us think the suspension was too severe, does not mean we think what Ron did was OK.

Reggie4Three
04-15-2005, 10:40 AM
Sheffield won't serve much of a suspension if any because the MLBPA has teeth and will back him up.

When are some of these idiot fans going to realize they aren't part of the game? Stay off the court or field. Don't throw things. Until there are real consequences to the team for their fan's stupidity, things aren't going to change. I'm actually looking forward to the day when an athlete just goes off on a fan who is acting like an idiot. I just hope it's not one from one of my favorite teams.

Harmonica
04-15-2005, 10:42 AM
Please find me a post, any post from anyone over the past 6 months that in anyway tries to justify Ron doing what he did. I know I've never tried to justify what he did. Just because some of us think the suspension was too severe, does not mean we think what Ron did was OK.

"Please find me a post, any post from anyone over the past 6 months that in anyway tries to justify Ron doing what he did." You're joking, right? Kstat's post is funny because it's based in truth. "I mean, its human genetics to do that, right? I hear Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, and even Mother Teresa all said they would have charged the stands and gone berzerk." I don't know how many times I've read something similar to this in the past 6 months here, minus the Mother Teresa zinger of course.

fwpacerfan
04-15-2005, 10:47 AM
Actually, Sheffield started to go into the stands but something happened that people from Detroit have never seen and would not recognize. Security stepped in to take control like almost all stadiums and arenas do.

I have heard there are still a few places that do not adhere to that policy but who knows.

:D :cool:

THIS is the post of the year!!!! :laugh:

It is amazing what adequate security can do to control these situations.

I said it after the Palace fiasco and I'll say it again - there WILL be another issue with players going into the stands. IF the Boston fans would have reacted the way Ben Wallace's brother and other fans in the Palace did - there would have been an escalation. IF the security guy hadn't ran and jumped in the stands immediately - there would have been an escalation. If Sheffield would have connected with the lady standing there and not just knocked her beer over - there would have been an escalation. What if that lady was a 9 year old kid? Sheffield didn't know or care who was there.

The fans in Detroit were not penalized harshly enough to prevent this. The same thing with the guy who threw the bottle at Milton Bradley last September. If you look at a timeline there have been 3 incidents in Baseball in the last 6 weeks of play, not counting playoffs. There have been 3 incidents in the NBA, if you count the Finley's verbal assault and the Francis kicking incident. That would be 6 incidents in 7 months.

For some reason fans feel like they have the RIGHT to do whatever they want. Maybe it's because the consequences are not harsh enough. Sheffield was stupid for going back over to the stands after he completed the play. He went back over and started squaring up on the fans. Luckily the fans realized he was probably having a 'Roid Rage incident so they didn't react. If they would have I am certain Sheffield would not have shown such "restraint."

Harmonica
04-15-2005, 10:55 AM
THIS is the post of the year!!!! :laugh:

It is amazing what adequate security can do to control these situations.

I said it after the Palace fiasco and I'll say it again - there WILL be another issue with players going into the stands. IF the Boston fans would have reacted the way Ben Wallace's brother and other fans in the Palace did - there would have been an escalation. IF the security guy hadn't ran and jumped in the stands immediately - there would have been an escalation. If Sheffield would have connected with the lady standing there and not just knocked her beer over - there would have been an escalation. What if that lady was a 9 year old kid? Sheffield didn't know or care who was there.

The fans in Detroit were not penalized harshly enough to prevent this. The same thing with the guy who threw the bottle at Milton Bradley last September. If you look at a timeline there have been 3 incidents in Baseball in the last 6 weeks of play, not counting playoffs. There have been 3 incidents in the NBA, if you count the Finley's verbal assault and the Francis kicking incident. That would be 6 incidents in 7 months.

For some reason fans feel like they have the RIGHT to do whatever they want. Maybe it's because the consequences are not harsh enough. Sheffield was stupid for going back over to the stands after he completed the play. He went back over and started squaring up on the fans. Luckily the fans realized he was probably having a 'Roid Rage incident so they didn't react. If they would have I am certain Sheffield would not have shown such "restraint."

Funny how two people see the same thing differently. Ever see Rashomon, fwpacerfan? I saw someone who thought about going after that fan, but then thought better of it. I'll take Sheffield's word on it, that Ron Artest crossed his mind.

Unclebuck
04-15-2005, 10:58 AM
"Please find me a post, any post from anyone over the past 6 months that in anyway tries to justify Ron doing what he did." You're joking, right? Kstat's post is funny because it's based in truth. "I mean, its human genetics to do that, right? I hear Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, and even Mother Teresa all said they would have charged the stands and gone berzerk." I don't know how many times I've read something similar to this in the past 6 months here, minus the Mother Teresa zinger of course.



Just because you hear Barkley or anyone say they would have done the same thing, does not mean they believe it would have been the right thing to do.

Just because someone might say, "yes I can understand what caused Ron to go into the stands" that is very different from saying that Ron was justified in going into the stands.

Mushmouth
04-15-2005, 10:58 AM
I'm still scratching my head. Why didn't sheffield jump into the stands and indescriminately start grabbing people? Where were the other outfielders? Dont they know that you're not a real teamate unless you jump into the stands and start slugging people?

This sheffield guy must be a total saint for not going into the stands. I mean, its human genetics to do that, right? I hear Charles Barkley, Tim duncan, and even Mother Theresa all said they would have charged the stands and gone berzerk.

Apparently, SHeffield and the Yankees do not "ride together." I wouldn't be surprised if they took separate buses to the games......

I'm amazed that the entire section didn't resort to scumbag detroit-levels of civility and start throwing chairs, dumping beers and throwing haymakers... I guess as bad as Boston is, its still populated by people that aren't mentally disabled felons (and, god forbid, brothers of "players").

fwpacerfan
04-15-2005, 11:12 AM
Funny how two people see the same thing differently. Ever see Rashomon, fwpacerfan? I saw someone who thought about going after that fan, but then thought better of it. I'll take Sheffield's word on it, that Ron Artest crossed his mind.


I've never seen Rashomon. My question is when did Artest cross his mind? Was when he first fielded the ball and swung at the guy? Or was it after he went over and squared up on the fans? I also think maybe Sheffield realized the fan didn't actually do anything except try to field the ball (which is still wrong - fans are not supposed to enter the field of play).

I just find it funny that everyone is giving Sheffield props for restraining himself. He restrained himself AFTER he escalated the incident. All it would have taken was for one fan to retaliate with something (maybe a cup of beer?) when he went back over to the fans and I guarantee it would have been on. Fortunately the Boston fans are reasonable adults and didn't take him on.

Harmonica
04-15-2005, 11:16 AM
Just because you hear Barkley or anyone say they would have done the same thing, does not mean they believe it would have been the right thing to do.

It's not that Charles Barkley said it. It's that people take what he said and use it to defend Ron. And don't say that people haven't done that because they have. That's why Kstat's post was so funny. He had a point of reference.



Just because someone might say, "yes I can understand what caused Ron to go into the stands" that is very different from saying that Ron was justified in going into the stands.

It is, but I've seen both.

shags
04-15-2005, 11:17 AM
Artest is a hero, he kept the peace in Boston.

:laugh:

Anthem
04-15-2005, 11:18 AM
I'm amazed that the entire section didn't resort to scumbag detroit-levels of civility and start throwing chairs, dumping beers and throwing haymakers... I guess as bad as Boston is, its still populated by people that are mentally disabled felons (and brothers of players).

:laugh:

Harmy and Kstat can say what they want, but this sure doesn't make Ron look worse.

Harmonica
04-15-2005, 11:29 AM
:laugh:

Harmy and Kstat can say what they want, but this sure doesn't make Ron look worse.

True. Because I can't phathom how Ron could look any worse. Unless, of course, he had trampled over a small child on his way to grabbing the wrong person. Seriously, one has nothing to do with the other, which was essentially my point. But obviously drawing comparisons is tempting.

fwpacerfan
04-15-2005, 11:35 AM
True. Because I can't phathom how Ron could look any worse. Unless, of course, he had trampled over a small child on his way to grabbing the wrong person. Seriously, one has nothing to do with the other, which was essentially my point. But obviously drawing comparisons is tempting.


You are thinking of Ben's big brother. He's the one who tramautized the children.

Anthem
04-15-2005, 11:37 AM
True. Because I can't phathom how Ron could look any worse. Unless, of course, he had trampled over a small child on his way to grabbing the wrong person. Seriously, one has nothing to do with the other, which was essentially my point. But obviously drawing comparisons is tempting.

Fathom. :devil:

Fool
04-15-2005, 11:50 AM
OMG stop you idiots!

Quit doing this every time you get the chance!

At this point I'm pretty sure we are worse than Artest and the Piston fans involved that night. At least he didn't continue to run into the stands over and over, even months after the incident and they aren't dumping food and drink on every team that enters the Palace.

Harmonica
04-15-2005, 11:53 AM
Fathom. :devil:

Dammit.

able
04-15-2005, 12:07 PM
"Please find me a post, any post from anyone over the past 6 months that in anyway tries to justify Ron doing what he did." You're joking, right? Kstat's post is funny because it's based in truth. "I mean, its human genetics to do that, right? I hear Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, and even Mother Teresa all said they would have charged the stands and gone berzerk." I don't know how many times I've read something similar to this in the past 6 months here, minus the Mother Teresa zinger of course.
Darned should be easy to find one then..................

MagicRat
04-15-2005, 12:12 PM
Darned should be easy to find one then..................

Did you and UB have Sassan on ignore or what?............

Anthem
04-15-2005, 12:21 PM
Did you and UB have Sassan on ignore or what?............

I know I did...

And for the record, I'd love it if we could just talk about the guys that are playing this year. Enough with the Artest stuff.

Unclebuck
04-15-2005, 12:23 PM
Did you and UB have Sassan on ignore or what?............

He does not count


I do have a question: Can you equate what Ron had "thrown" at him v what Sheffield had thrown at him. Which situation was more difficult for the player to restrain himself.

ChicagoJ
04-15-2005, 01:12 PM
There were others that, while not condoning Ron's actions, have spend a lot of energy deflecting *all* the blame to others (Ben, security, David Stern, etc.).

I've always been okay with "shared" blame. I can - at one level - understand what caused Ron to snap, but that doesn't mean I can excuse/ condone it.

The point I believe Harmonica, Kstat, and others were making above is, there are still numerous posters that believe Ron is the "victim" here. Or, at least, that's how I interpreted it.

Having said that, I concur with Anthem. Enough about you-know-who.

Pistoner
04-15-2005, 03:48 PM
He does not count


I do have a question: Can you equate what Ron had "thrown" at him v what Sheffield had thrown at him. Which situation was more difficult for the player to restrain himself.


Sheffield had a hand in the face. Artest a cup in the chest. They would both **** me off, but I would think the hand to the face would be worse (invasion of personal space).

If Sheffield had immediately reacted to this and jumped into the stands and started swinging, I wonder how much it would have escalated and if security could have contained it.

Sad when fans can't just watch the game.

Since86
04-15-2005, 03:59 PM
Sheffield had a hand in the face. Artest a cup in the chest. They would both **** me off, but I would think the hand to the face would be worse (invasion of personal space).

A cup hitting you isn't invading your personal space?

Agreed with the rest.

Pistoner
04-15-2005, 04:02 PM
A cup hitting you isn't invading your personal space?

Agreed with the rest.

Not by my definition. I go by the American standard of a 2 foot diameter in all directions around me. Anybody other than my wife goes in that 2 foot, I get uncomfortable. Of course a cup to the head is uncomfortable also.

Since86
04-15-2005, 04:06 PM
Not by my definition. I go by the American standard of a 2 foot diameter in all directions around me. Anybody other than my wife goes in that 2 foot, I get uncomfortable. Of course a cup to the head is uncomfortable also.

AHHH..... not a close talker?(Seinfeld) Personally I'd be pissed at either.

Unclebuck
04-15-2005, 04:40 PM
Sheffield had a hand in the face. Artest a cup in the chest. They would both **** me off, but I would think the hand to the face would be worse (invasion of personal space).

If Sheffield had immediately reacted to this and jumped into the stands and started swinging, I wonder how much it would have escalated and if security could have contained it.

Sad when fans can't just watch the game.


So if a basketball is almost out of bunds and a fan gets in the way and a hand gets into a players face that is worse than a cup of liquid hitting you while the game is not being played

Pistoner
04-15-2005, 05:01 PM
So if a basketball is almost out of bunds and a fan gets in the way and a hand gets into a players face that is worse than a cup of liquid hitting you while the game is not being played


This is how I look at it. If I am a player and I am at the edge of the playing field and a fan reaches out and smacks me in the mouth (Sheffield's description) or if a cup comes out of a crowd and hits me in the chest, I'm steaming about both. I'd be pissed.

That being said, There is a much higher chance of me taking a swing at the guy right in front of me who I think smacked me, than there is of me running up into a crowd and trying to find an unknown assailant.

I'm not saying the intent of the fan was to smack sheffield, I'm saying that is probably how he perceived it.

This question is kind of like: "Does it hurt more to get punched in the left nut or the right one?"

They both suck

aceace
04-15-2005, 05:09 PM
What is strange about this whole situation is it really doesn't even compare to Detroit. The players were not shoving each other, no one was upset. The fan appeared to be interfering with play. This would be more like a ball going out of bounds and a fan preventing a player from saving it. Sheffield took offense to a slight graze at best. I agree the fan shoulda been tossed for his actions. Sheffield accelerated the whole situation. This is why I feel that Sterns actions were so unfair against RA it was an incredibly intense moment in Detroit between 2 players and both teams. Both had trained all their lives not to be weak and to win. Bostons fan interference was a joke.

Pistoner
04-15-2005, 05:12 PM
Ok, I know that wasnt intentional, but I died laughing when I read that.


You're right. That was not intentional. :)

Unclebuck
04-15-2005, 05:13 PM
What is strange about this whole situation is it really doesn't even compare to Detroit. The players were not shoving each other, no one was upset. The fan appeared to be interfering with play. This would be more like a ball going out of bounds and a fan preventing a player from saving it. Sheffield took offense to a slight graze at best. I agree the fan shoulda been tossed for his actions. Sheffield accelerated the whole situation. This is why I feel that Sterns actions were so unfair against RA it was an incredibly intense moment in Detroit between 2 players and both teams. Both had trained all their lives not to be weak and to win. Bostons fan interference was a joke.


That is the best post I've read today. I've tried in my mind to compare the two incidents, but it is too difficult

Pistoner
04-15-2005, 05:19 PM
What is strange about this whole situation is it really doesn't even compare to Detroit. The players were not shoving each other, no one was upset. The fan appeared to be interfering with play. This would be more like a ball going out of bounds and a fan preventing a player from saving it. Sheffield took offense to a slight graze at best. I agree the fan shoulda been tossed for his actions. Sheffield accelerated the whole situation. This is why I feel that Sterns actions were so unfair against RA it was an incredibly intense moment in Detroit between 2 players and both teams. Both had trained all their lives not to be weak and to win. Bostons fan interference was a joke.

You are right. They are not the same thing. With the Boston incident, I picture myself concentrating on the task at hand (fielding the ball bent over) and a hand coming out and hitting me in the face. The shock of a hand in my face might cause me to swing back (instinctively). I think any basketball player getting hit in the face on the edge of the court when they are trying to save a ball might give in to the instinct to react.

dannyboy
04-15-2005, 05:22 PM
That is the best post I've read today. I've tried in my mind to compare the two incidents, but it is too difficult


Here's a comparison I read earlier, but he compares Sheffield more to JO than to RA.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/cowbell/blog

Pistoner
04-15-2005, 05:28 PM
Here's a comparison I read earlier, but he compares Sheffield more to JO than to RA.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/cowbell/blog


In my opinion, that is a more accurate comparison. I don't blame either Sheffield or JO for their reactions.

gilpdawg
04-15-2005, 05:35 PM
Good one, Kstat.

You know what's even funnier? How Ron apologists will (probably) say you can't compare this incident to what happened in Detroit, but they'll readily bring up Vernon what's-his-name and other loose comparisons to justify Ron's actions and vilify Stern's recourse.
+1 on that. I'm with ya, of course, we're probably the minority round these parts.

brichard
04-15-2005, 06:13 PM
There are a few things to be learned from this.

1. Security- Nobody, including Pistons fans, can speak with any intelligence that the security during the brawl was adequate. I don't know if they had the right numbers of guards or not, but they sure took their sweet time to do anything. This incident is a complete reversal and shows what a difference it can make.

2. Consequences- Ah, I said before that the suspensions would be much easier to swallow if the consequences were known. When I went to work at Fed Ex they sit you down the first day and let you know that if you are in a fight... you are fired. It doesn't matter if you start it, if you fight... you are gone. Their only defense for you was to run.

The Mad Max incident was brought up in order to show a pattern in disciplinary behavior. Had Max been tossed for the year, then it would have set a precedent for the future. Unfortunately Stern didn't use Max as an example when things were relatively tame, he waited to unload on the Pacers after things reached the point of no return.

I will say this for Stern, by making an example out of Artest, he is making athletes of all sports think about their actions a bit more. This can only be a good thing in sports. However, it is disconcerting that the fan was only given a slap on the wrist.

The fans at this point are more out of control than the players... and that is what causes really frightening events. Think about it, the players of both teams can go wild in the stands and only inflict a fixed amount of damage before they are restrained. But what is really scary is a stadium full of people engaged in a riot. That is where people can get trampled, killed, etc. Ya' gotta keep the fans in check. This isn't a problem exclusively to Detroit, this is a world problem (see soccer fans) that needs to be rectified.

Since86
04-15-2005, 06:18 PM
This can only be a good thing in sports. However, it is disconcerting that the fan was only given a slap on the wrist.

The fans at this point are more out of control than the players... and that is what causes really frightening events. Think about it, the players of both teams can go wild in the stands and only inflict a fixed amount of damage before they are restrained. But what is really scary is a stadium full of people engaged in a riot. That is where people can get trampled, killed, etc. Ya' gotta keep the fans in check. This isn't a problem exclusively to Detroit, this is a world problem (see soccer fans) that needs to be rectified.


I agree with everything you've said, but it's going to be impossible to enforce harsher punishments on the fans. They can't be charged with more than assualt, and the league can't do more than ban them from arenas. The only thing that's going to stop them is self-responsiblity of taking care of their own actions. And I'm sure that we can all agree that, that may never happen considering everything else.

brichard
04-15-2005, 11:28 PM
I agree with everything you've said, but it's going to be impossible to enforce harsher punishments on the fans. They can't be charged with more than assualt, and the league can't do more than ban them from arenas. The only thing that's going to stop them is self-responsiblity of taking care of their own actions. And I'm sure that we can all agree that, that may never happen considering everything else.


Well, in this particular case I believe the fan was just ejected. I don't think any additional legal punishment was sought or levied, but I could be wrong.

There are things that can be done:

1. Ban fans for life.
2. Actually file assault charges.
3. Limit or ban liquor sales at venues engaging in raucous behavior.
4. Eject unreasonable fans long before they get beligerent.

I think number 4. is probably the most likely to keep things in check. If we are saying this is a family venue, start throwing out guys who are dropping F-bombs etc. I don't think there is anything wrong with yelling, but we need to keep it clean and creative.

PacerMan
04-16-2005, 12:49 AM
On a sidenote, A-Rod has to be the world's tallest and wealthiest pre-pubescent child.





NOW stay on topic....

:evillaugh


Pedro comes to mind, though as a midget, he doesn't fit the tallest criteria.

PacerMan
04-16-2005, 12:51 AM
There was no reason to go into the stands, the fan was right there


I should just stay out of this

Not. THat "tough guy" fan was backpeddling as far as he could.
Did you see the pu**y beer thrower fall over trying to get away! What a freakin wuss. :)

PacerMan
04-16-2005, 12:54 AM
I've never seen Rashomon. My question is when did Artest cross his mind? Was when he first fielded the ball and swung at the guy? Or was it after he went over and squared up on the fans? I also think maybe Sheffield realized the fan didn't actually do anything except try to field the ball (which is still wrong - fans are not supposed to enter the field of play).

I just find it funny that everyone is giving Sheffield props for restraining himself. He restrained himself AFTER he escalated the incident. All it would have taken was for one fan to retaliate with something (maybe a cup of beer?) when he went back over to the fans and I guarantee it would have been on. Fortunately the Boston fans are reasonable adults and didn't take him on.

Uh, how did you miss the idiot CLEARLY throwing his beer on Sheffield??????

PacerMan
04-16-2005, 12:57 AM
He does not count


I do have a question: Can you equate what Ron had "thrown" at him v what Sheffield had thrown at him. Which situation was more difficult for the player to restrain himself.


Sheffield was looking down at the ball. He clearly thought the fan threw a punch at him.
Baseball players have been getting beer thrown at them for decades.

grace
04-16-2005, 01:08 AM
Personally I think the guy was an employee of the Mohegan Sun. He knew the camera would be on Sheffield so the guy leaned down and ran his hand along the Mohegan Sun banner. Kind of like the Price Is Right girls pointing out wonderful prizes.

PacerMan
04-16-2005, 03:33 PM
Personally I think the guy was an employee of the Mohegan Sun. He knew the camera would be on Sheffield so the guy leaned down and ran his hand along the Mohegan Sun banner. Kind of like the Price Is Right girls pointing out wonderful prizes.

LOL