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View Full Version : Nets game. Flagrant foul, and Rick rips Kravitz ?



Unclebuck
04-13-2005, 11:10 PM
Let me get right to it. I've never been against a flagrant foul now and then, and I thought the flagrant foul Croshere took on Vince Carter was the most important play of the game. Rightly or wrongly that is the way you have to defend Vince Carter. That set the tone for the rest of the game.

Obviously if Reggie does not get that 4 point play the Pacers lose the game, but the flagrant turned the game back into the Pacers favor.

I've said this every time the Pacers play the nets. But I give Lawrence Frank a lot of credit and I love the way the Nets play defense. If you notice in the first half the Pacers were passing the ball a few times each play, but against an excellent defensive team like the Nets it takes a few more passes to get a decent shot. And in the second half the Pacers moved the ball, made the extra pass.

One other comment about the Nets. Damn Jason Kidd is good. Is there anything scarier than seeing Jason kidd with the ball in the open court. Wow.

I'll say this again, I was wrong about James Jones. I was not giving him enough credit. He's not flashy, but he does many little things that help the team win and he is excellent in pressure situations.

Dale struggled a little in the first half, but he came up with many huge rebounds as he always does late in the ballgame.

Pacers were really good in the second half, they went after the game and played playoff style aggressive basketball. Great to see.


Did Rick Carlisle just rip Kravitz in the press conference.

Freddie has a broken finger

Hicks
04-13-2005, 11:17 PM
Did Rick Carlisle just rip Kravitz in the press conference.

Freddie has a broken finger

Can you please elaborate on both of these?

able
04-13-2005, 11:20 PM
UB; I have been hesitant to say it until now, but I think given another year or so, and JJ could well be the heir apparent for real.
Not only does he do a lot of small things, (he's a good rebounder) plays decent defense (to good) he has solid clutch performance written over him, and he has a very very beautiful shot, with great range.

Considering his minutes will increase he could grow into something special

let's keep the kid a few years and see what happens, I believe we have on guy retiring who was

TheHotShot31
04-13-2005, 11:23 PM
Freddie has a broken finger?!

Unclebuck
04-13-2005, 11:24 PM
Can you please elaborate on both of these?



I listening to the post game press conference. (Fox Sports only covers Rick's opening comments, but on radio they at least broadcast a few questions).
Rick said they found out today that Fred broke a finger, not in the game tonight, not sure when. But he was messing with it tonight.

I did not hear the question that I think Kravitz asked Rick, but I heard Rick's response and he said something to the effect, "that was so long ago, why can't we focus on what is going on right now, why don't you write a sotry on the here and now.

I would guess Bob asked about the brawl in Detroit. But I did not hear the question, so I don't know, I think I recognized Bob's voice. Hopefully someone else can fill in the gaps

MagicRat
04-13-2005, 11:24 PM
They (Al and Quinn) mentioned during the game that Freddie has a broken knuckle on his shooting hand. Looked like he had a couple of fingers taped together. Might help explain his play the last few games.

I'm a fan of anybody that can shoot it, and JJ can flat-out shoot it. I really hope they keep him around......

Unclebuck
04-13-2005, 11:26 PM
Who are these idiots calling in asking if Artest is playing in the playoffs. One of the idiots also asked if DH is playing in the playoffs. Duh does kneee surgery mean anything

Just heard DW say this is one of his proudest moments

MagicRat
04-13-2005, 11:28 PM
Who are these idiots calling in asking if Artest is playing in the playoffs.

:blush:

MagicRat
04-13-2005, 11:29 PM
No question about it, this team's been through a lot, no question about it......

Skaut_Ech
04-13-2005, 11:30 PM
UB; I have been hesitant to say it until now, but I think given another year or so, and JJ could well be the heir apparent for real.
Not only does he do a lot of small things, (he's a good rebounder) plays decent defense (to good) he has solid clutch performance written over him, and he has a very very beautiful shot, with great range.

Considering his minutes will increase he could grow into something special

let's keep the kid a few years and see what happens, I believe we have on guy retiring who was

able, I've been saying that for over a year now. My big thing is all the praise we've been lavishing on Bender's "potential" in the past, will be realized in actuality by JJ. When people want to jock Freddie Jones, I try to stear them towards a second look at JJ. I whole-heartedly agree with you. JJ is the guy with potential I'd hate to lose.

Unclebuck
04-13-2005, 11:34 PM
able, I've been saying that for over a year now. My big thing is all the praise we've been lavishing on Bender's "potential" in the past, will be realized in actuality by JJ. When people want to jock Freddie Jones, I try to stear them towards a second look at JJ. I whole-heartedly agree with you. JJ is the guy with potential I'd hate to lose.



JJ is not a potential guy. I say that as a compliment. All he needs is a little experience and he's ready. But he does not have a huge upside

Diesel
04-13-2005, 11:41 PM
We all learned james jones can shoot the ball, we all saw in the beginning of the year how teams dared him to shoot and he made them play. Then fatigue and maybe scouting caused him to struggle for a while. The problem with James Jones has been he doesn't have a mid range game or a dribble drive game, however over the past couple of games I have seen him start shooting off the dribble and hes been knocking that down. For James Jones to be effective he needs to learn how to do something with the ball in his hands because hes not a catch and shoot player. We can't run him around picks and expect him to knock down jumpers like Reggie. IF he keeps this up(shooting off the dribble) then we'll have something with him. He also needs to add a dribble drive move,or some sort of post game. He's long and tall he would be a tough cover in the post against some of the smaller small forwards.

beast23
04-14-2005, 12:08 AM
...For James Jones to be effective he needs to learn how to do something with the ball in his hands because hes not a catch and shoot player.Whoa. Wait a minute. In my opinion, that's the strongest part of James Jones offensive game. He IS a catch and shoot player.

And in my opinion, that makes him a PERFECT bench player right now. The fact that he doesn't have to put the ball on the floor to be able to knock down the open jumper.

He does an excellent job of catching the ball with his feet under him and in perfect position to jump into his shot.

The biggest differences that I see between JJ's game and Bender's is that JJ appears to be a little more consistent in his contributions when he gets on the floor, and he also is a respectable defensive player.

Every team needs a player that is capable of coming off the bench and 15 seconds later knocking down the open perimeter jumper. JJ won't get significatn minutes, but is already capable of being a designated shooter off the bench.

Anthem
04-14-2005, 12:08 AM
He'd need more weight to play the post.

I'd rather he use that height to keep getting shots off from the arc. He can be our Kyle Korver.

sixthman
04-14-2005, 12:13 AM
JJ is not a potential guy. I say that as a compliment. All he needs is a little experience and he's ready. But he does not have a huge upside

Maybe it's just a matter of experience, but I think it's more than that UB. He seems to be simply adding new and needed ingredients to his game. When he started out he was strictly a catch and shoot type player. But he seems to have added a nice little mid range game, and gotten better at creating his own shot.

James is obviously a smart kid --- a quick study, if you will. I enjoy pointing out to folks just learning about James Jones that he was an academic All-American at Miami. No doubt JJ is in a nice comfort zone right now. And Rick Carlisle is in a comfort zone regarding giving James minutes.

Also give Austin a save of the game today for keeping Rick Carlisle away from the official in the first quarter. Had not Austin gotten involved, I think Rick was headed for two "T's" and an early exit.

Unclebuck
04-14-2005, 12:17 AM
I guess some of us have a different definition of what a "potential player" is.

it is interesting how this thread has turned into a JJ thread.

SoupIsGood
04-14-2005, 12:20 AM
JJ has potential to be a very good back-up in limited minutes.

I'd be okay with that if we had a SF that we could count on taking up the rest of those minutes every game.

Anthem
04-14-2005, 12:20 AM
I'm stunned that Freddy is busted up. Broken knuckles? That won't heal before the playoffs. There has never been a team like this one.

If Tins can come back, we can get some minutes for AJ at the 2 spot. Other than that, I don't know what we'll do.

It just doesn't stop.

ChicagoJ
04-14-2005, 12:22 AM
At least we've got a legit reason for why Freddie hasn't been able to drop-kick the ball into the ocean from the beach lately.

Maybe he should quit jacking up so many shots until it heals a little bit... :shrug:

Arcadian
04-14-2005, 12:22 AM
JJ has the "potential" to be a Hoiberg type player aside from not looking like Doug.

Unclebuck
04-14-2005, 12:30 AM
At least we've got a legit reason for why Freddie hasn't been able to drop-kick the ball into the ocean from the beach lately.

Maybe he should quit jacking up so many shots until it heals a little bit... :shrug:



I think he tried to drive a lot tonight, but had trouble with that also

Since86
04-14-2005, 12:39 AM
He also needs to add a dribble drive move,or some sort of post game. He's long and tall he would be a tough cover in the post against some of the smaller small forwards.

I'm positive that he was U. Miami's post presence while he was there.......
I doubt he's gotten the okay, or need, to go into the post. Right now he's just a security valve. I'd imagine when he starts being an even bigger part of the offense, the adjustments would be visible. Right now all he needs to do is hit the damn jumper.

Kegboy
04-14-2005, 12:47 AM
Who are these idiots calling in asking if Artest is playing in the playoffs.

I can't stand the people who call in. It used to be you got real basketball discussion on there, now it's the stupidest questions you could ever dream up.

Speaking of stupid people, there was a guy in front of me getting into Conseco who made a big deal about the security searches, asking "when the hell did this start?" :rollout: I told the guy who always scans our tickets, and he said, "Where's the guy been the last 5 years?"

Back to the game, I wasn't terribly impressed with Frank last year. However, I really like how NJ's been playing since the trade. I'm reticent to give Frank much credit, but I remember giving him props for hiring Brian Hill and Bill Cartwright over the summer, so I'll give them the credit instead. :-p

PacerMan
04-14-2005, 01:05 AM
I'm stunned that Freddy is busted up. Broken knuckles? That won't heal before the playoffs. There has never been a team like this one.

If Tins can come back, we can get some minutes for AJ at the 2 spot. Other than that, I don't know what we'll do.

It just doesn't stop.


Somewhere somebody did the research on most games lost to injury or something like that. We're NOT EVEN CLOSE. Barely more than 1/2 of the record
I think.

PacerMan
04-14-2005, 01:06 AM
JJ has the "potential" to be a Hoiberg type player aside from not looking like Doug.

Doug who?

ChicagoJ
04-14-2005, 01:12 AM
Our Doug, who - legend has it - looks like a cross between Fred Hoiberg and Eric Piatkowski.

Suaveness
04-14-2005, 01:17 AM
JJ is a solid guy, no more. I like his game, which is something nice to have off the bench. But he doesn't have the potential to make a dramatic improvement in his game like Harrison or Fred do.

Anthem
04-14-2005, 01:35 AM
Somewhere somebody did the research on most games lost to injury or something like that. We're NOT EVEN CLOSE. Barely more than 1/2 of the record I think.

But they weren't expected to make the playoffs even before their players started going down, and they didn't lose major cogs on the team. And it was the Raptors. And we ARE close. And "someone" was Mark Montieth. And we're way over half.

If you know that you don't know anything, please don't assume that others know less than you.

Evan_The_Dude
04-14-2005, 01:55 AM
JJ is a solid guy, no more. I like his game, which is something nice to have off the bench. But he doesn't have the potential to make a dramatic improvement in his game like Harrison or Fred do.

I hope JJ uses the off season to prove us wrong.

Anthem
04-14-2005, 01:57 AM
If you know that you don't know anything, please don't assume that others know less than you.

I know it's snotty, but I really liked this line.

I shouldn't post here when I'm on no sleep.

Will Galen
04-14-2005, 02:05 AM
Somewhere somebody did the research on most games lost to injury or something like that. We're NOT EVEN CLOSE. Barely more than 1/2 of the record
I think.


Friday, March 18, 2005, Conrad Brunner wrote in his Question of the day column, "The NBA record is 519 player games lost to injury or illness, set by Toronto in 2002-03. At the moment, the Pacers' total is 231. If Jermaine O'Neal, Jonathan Bender and one other player (presumably either David Harrison or John Edwards) on the injured list all miss the remaining 19 games, that number will grow to 288. Depending on how many more games Jamaal Tinsley misses, the figure could approach 300.

Of course, the stat-keepers don't include games lost to suspension in that number and if you included the 124 games the Pacers have been penalized, their games-missed total would rise well above 400 by the end of the season.
-----

I read somewhere in the last couple days that we had now lost over 400, of course that was probably counting suspensions. I'll try to find the link.

Edit; I couldn't find the link. It remember it was a short blurb at the end of a box.

Natston
04-14-2005, 02:11 AM
But they weren't expected to make the playoffs even before their players started going down, and they didn't lose major cogs on the team. And it was the Raptors. And we ARE close. And "someone" was Mark Montieth. And we're way over half.

If you know that you don't know anything, please don't assume that others know less than you.

During a recent game, I think it might have been the Knicks OT game... Anyway it showed that we had 400 some games lost by players, compared to 200 some by the Wizards.

Natston
04-14-2005, 02:13 AM
Friday, March 18, 2005, Conrad Brunner wrote in his Question of the day column, "The NBA record is 519 player games lost to injury or illness, set by Toronto in 2002-03. At the moment, the Pacers' total is 231. If Jermaine O'Neal, Jonathan Bender and one other player (presumably either David Harrison or John Edwards) on the injured list all miss the remaining 19 games, that number will grow to 288. Depending on how many more games Jamaal Tinsley misses, the figure could approach 300.

Of course, the stat-keepers don't include games lost to suspension in that number and if you included the 124 games the Pacers have been penalized, their games-missed total would rise well above 400 by the end of the season.
-----

I read somewhere in the last couple days that we had now lost over 400, of course that was probably counting suspensions. I'll try to find the link.

Damn you for beating me to the punch as well as going more in depth... :grumble:

Cactus Jax
04-14-2005, 03:29 AM
I am intrigued as to why you guys think JJ can't improve like Freddie or Hulk?

In my opinion he has the tools to become at least a Tayshan Prince type defender; he's got long arms, and he's tall yet quick as well.

All the guy has to do is gain more confidence and he'll be hard enough to stop with that sweet shot of his. He's had so many opportunities to nail shots from 15-20 feet but passes them up although I think he could make them in his sleep.

Also, he's a fairly solid rebounder as well, so I think it's not fair to call him just a jump shooter.

Freddie is struggling so bad because everyone's making him shoot especially now that he has a broken knuckle. His greatest strength offensively is actually making nice passes after driving, but now the defense is making him shoot.

able
04-14-2005, 04:50 AM
I am in deed like PiAz amazed that you're all so sure JJ has nothing but what he shows every night, in fact I'm astounded.

Let's see, he played in 6 games in his rookie season for an avg of 4.5 minutes, so for all legal terms THIS year is his rookie season.

He took the lead when we were down to 6 players, pouring them in at a high percentage.
He is a good rebounder, often grabbing a lotwhen asked/needed, or none when he has another task assigned.
In a recent article Rick said that JJ needs to get more confident and shoot more, but as he was told from day one here he was only here to provide some added defense, and since the adagio on the team is defense first, he defers and concentrates on defense.
He is a good defender, inexperienced; yes, but still good, remember he's a rookie.
He can drive, though he never does because it is not his task! others are there to do that, he is asked to defend and take a jumper, not slash.
He has good ballhandling skills, he has a nice floater of the dribble, and he has simply a deadly shot from anywhere outside the arch inwards.
His shooting form is a thing of beauty, he has a quick release, much like Reggie, he is dedicated as anything else, and he moves well with and without the ball.

I have a feeling that with some guidance and some time he would be a damn good SG beit 1st or 2nd string is at this moment not important, but I feel he is one of the best pure shooters on this team.
Over the last 11 games (as far as I went back) he's shooting 500+ (22-41) but over his last 8 he's shooting the lights out: 20-33 aka 600+ and this includes 3pt shots.
He's a rookie shooting 850 from the FT line, and who has made several in crunchtime this past weeks. (8-8)
He's still only averaging 15 minutes a game, but strangely enough Rick trusts him more then enough to nowadays leave him in at crunch time, where he simply knocks down a shot and then 2 FT's like last night, waver? not a bit, all net.

Sorry, but Reggie played more minutes in his rookie season, had the same amount (actually slightly less) rebounds/ast and though he had a far better FG% JJ has a better 3pt % and the FG% is something that worries me the least, because that kid can shoot the ball like few on our team outside of Reggie.

Reggie had upsides where actually besides being a lights out shooter?
I'd JJ's defense will easily eqaul Reggie's in due course, his rebounding is better already, but let's say it's the same, what is there not to look forward to if this kid starts running of screens while Ricks calls plays for him?
Did you see midway through the 3d when we were going back and fourth, up 6 and tied game again, Rick calls timeout and they ran a play for JJ out of that, coming of the pick sinking the 3pt with so much ease that it looked amazing.

This kid needs to be extended, held, helped and what more, but of course we can keep Bender if that is prefered :D

Unclebuck
04-14-2005, 08:45 AM
What no one heard Rick's post game press conference ?

Hicks
04-14-2005, 08:52 AM
What no one heard Rick's post game press conference ?

Hey, I'm with you. I didn't hear it, but I'm much more interested in that right now than debating James Jones again. (I like JJ)

able
04-14-2005, 08:53 AM
lol, I miss those always, one: it is much later :) two: the nba feed gets cut 10 seconds after the last whisttle and three: the wibc online feed is still blocked at that moment :(

tell us!

Diesel
04-14-2005, 10:19 AM
Whoa. Wait a minute. In my opinion, that's the strongest part of James Jones offensive game. He IS a catch and shoot player.




I don't think hes a catch and shoot jump shooter. To be an effective catch and shoot ball player you need to be able to run off screens Think of Reggie, Rip or Ray Allen. Im not bashing James Jones for this because very few players have this in their arsenal.I don't think he can do that right now. He is a very good spot up shooter at this point in his career, but for him to to take his game up a couple of levels, he really needs to learn to do something with the ball in his hands. Lately he's been doing that hopefully it will continue.

Doug
04-14-2005, 10:29 AM
JJ has the "potential" to be a Hoiberg type player aside from not looking like Doug.

LOL! Too bad for JJ, but he'll probably manage fine.

Ragnar
04-14-2005, 11:16 AM
UB I dont understand your tepid feelings toward JJ. I thought that you would love a good defender who rebounds and hits clutch shots, I know I do.

I think he has tons of upside. His shooting is a thing of beauty and he is an above average defender. At this point I would keep him over Fred. Not just because Fred is not playing well right now. He is taller and provides us someone who can play both the 2 and the 3 with, Something Fred cant really do.

Mushmouth
04-14-2005, 11:20 AM
FREDDIE HAS A BROKEN KNUCKLE ON HIS SHOOTING HAND?!#?!??>!@#@#POIPN!@#)*Y(

Los Angeles
04-14-2005, 12:15 PM
PLEASE - will someone give a more in-depth report from the post-game conference?

Please??? :pray:

Since86
04-14-2005, 02:53 PM
If Carlisle did rip him, then Kravitz is doing some sucking up.

http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/236657-6315-092.html

ImCrazyB
04-14-2005, 03:11 PM
lol, I miss those always, one: it is much later :) two: the nba feed gets cut 10 seconds after the last whisttle and three: the wibc online feed is still blocked at that moment :(

tell us!
There are other feeds coming from Indiana that play the game besides WIBC.

Just checkout www.thegamelive.com and try the feeds..I know it's in the top 3..I'm pretty sure it's the very first one

Bball
04-14-2005, 03:16 PM
Shhhhhh....
mms://208.149.145.18:8080

-Bball

aceace
04-14-2005, 04:17 PM
JJ looks like he is 16 yrs old (BJ Armstrong syndrome) he will have many years in the NBA with his outside shot alone. Rick is Coach/Year in my book, but won't get it because of the brawl. Vince Carter will average 30ppg next year. UB you are right about Kidd he's just a shorter version of Magic, the guy has six eyes. Reggie should be 3rd team All-NBA. What a great comeback last night.... thx again Reggie

Gyron
04-14-2005, 04:37 PM
Bball, what is that link, I can't get it to open.