PDA

View Full Version : Jackson's late game meltdown and other thoughts on the Wizards game



Unclebuck
04-08-2005, 11:15 PM
I found this game to be very interesting tonight. Not the most fun or most exciting, but very interesting.

Let me start with Stephen Jackson. Not sure if he sprained his ankle again or not tonight but he injured something and was limping the rest of the game. So he was probably a little cranky tonight. However he had a meltdown in the last 6 minutes tonight.

It started when the Pacers had a fast break with about 3 minutes to go in the fourth quarter. Jax had the ball and appeared to have a fast break, but Rick Carlisle wanted and got a timeout right in the middle of the play. It was strange, I thought the Pacers would get an easy score. But Jax was pissed, first he just stood there right under the basket for maybe 20 seconds. Foster came over to him and kinda gave him a patt, and Jax walked slowly over to the huddle. But he was pissed.

During the timeout, the huddle was a mess, players were up roaming about, Mike Brown was really talking to Jax just trying to get Jax to calm down. Well surprisingly, to me at least, Rick kept Jax in the game. Jax got the ball on the first play, and took a pretty bad shot, but he made it. Next play down Jax took an even worse shot - missed it and Rick had a curious look on his face. Next time down Jax forced a post up with two guys on him and missed. Luckily the game was pretty much over and Jax and Reggie was taken out soon thereafter.

As soon as the game was over, Jax left the bench rather quickly going straight to the tunnel.

No reason to read too much into this account of event. More of just an FYI.

Unclebuck
04-08-2005, 11:27 PM
Sorry for starting another post, but I want to talk about the game.

Not sure if Dale was tired, sick or just was having an off game. But for the first game since he signed, the Pacers were dominated inside. Dale was taken out with 8 minutes to go in the 3rd and did not return to the game. He was limping or anything. So I don't know what the deal was.

Jeff was sure limping tonight, appeared he tweaked his hip and was having trouble moving real well.

Reggie was good tonight, Jax was OK, but the game belonged to the bench and AJ.

Is AJ playing at an allstar level. He has so much confidence right now. At one point tonight Rick wanted a timeout, I don't know if Rick changed his mind or what, but the pacers did not call the TO, and AJ created a good shot and scored. Seems to me that Rick has a ton of confidence in AJ, and trusts him. When Gill is in the game it seems to me that RC is a nervous wreck.

Let's talk Freddie Jones. I was shocked to hear he shot 1 of 14, because he had an excellent game especially in the second half. He was aggressive and created a lot of shots for his teammates. His defense was just outstanding tonight

Croshere was also excellent in the 4th quarter. Did he talk a three point shot tonight, I don't think so, but he drove to the hoop, and got to the free throw line. I like when he plays like that.

JJ was also very good tonight. Perhaps I've been too critical of him. He is a very solid player who does a lot of little things to help the team.

I'll post more later

Unclebuck
04-08-2005, 11:28 PM
Rick I think was asked about it in the post game press conference, and he just side-stepped it completely, saying the win is all that matters

MagicRat
04-08-2005, 11:40 PM
I thought it looked like Jax was ticked at AJ. He came over and yelled at him 2x during that ordeal and Mike Brown intervened.

I thought maybe he was p.o.'d because AJ took a questionable shot while Reggie was open for three and the crowd was chanting "Reg-gie"........but then again I was a long way away and I didn't see the beginning.....

Kstat
04-08-2005, 11:41 PM
Was I the only one that saw Jackson yelling at Tinsley more than AJ?

pacerwaala
04-08-2005, 11:45 PM
Was I the only one that saw Jackson yelling at Tinsley more than AJ?


That is what I saw too. He was yelling at AJ also but moreso at Jamal. Maybe he was just haphazardly yelling at everybody in earshot just like he was randomly punching at everybody in arms length. He really has to stop all this extra stuff. He can't be letting off steam like this whenver he feels like it.

Unclebuck
04-08-2005, 11:46 PM
My sense is he was just mad at everyone. But what set him off was when a timeout was called. Now I think AJ called it right in the middle of the fastbreak, but he called it because Rick wanted a timeout.

MagicRat
04-08-2005, 11:46 PM
Just watched some of the Post-game show and Chris Denari interviewed AJ and they showed a clip of AJ and Jax arguing. AJ said he said something that was taken the wrong way in the heat of battle and he apologized to Jax in the locker room and all is now well.......

Bball
04-09-2005, 12:45 AM
Here is an FYI for anyone who cares....
Rik Smits was at tonight's game.

-Bball

heywoode
04-09-2005, 12:55 AM
I watched the FSN broadcast and they were saying that Reggie was yelling and JT and AJ were jawing at Jax for taking that 3 trey with 18 to go on the shot clock and Jax got pissed about it after already being pissed about the timeout in the middle of a fast break (which I thought SUCKED)...He wanted a TO, but you gotta let the fast break flow...a good gimme bucket in transition would've helped almost as much as the timeout, IMO...

The play in question, FJ drove to the hoop and got hung up and kicked to Jax at the 3 point line and even FJ was motioning for Jax to kick it back up to the point, but he hoisted a crappy shot (not usually crappy coming from my money-man). The next timeout, JT and AJ both said something to Jax about it and Jax got all mad. Mike Brown was trying to calm him down but he just walked around him and back around the huddle and sat down. Reggie sat down between Jax and AJ, or Reggie and AJ were already seated, not sure on that....Reggie was then talking to Jax and calming him down...I never saw or heard Reggie yelling, but Al Albert said that he was,not necessarily AT Jax, just yelling....dunno any more than that...

Jermaniac
04-09-2005, 01:13 AM
Jax was pissed most of the game, first he got pissed because he wasnt getting calls and then Rick took him out with 24 seconds left in the 1st when he was hot and he just stood there looked at Rick and then walked to the bench and threw a towel to the ground and said some rated R words. Then he just looked pissed for the rest of the game and he probably just exploded when one of the guys said something to him. But it was probably a minor thing, I dont think its going to ruin any chemistry.

Peck
04-09-2005, 01:34 AM
This is how good the Indiana Pacers are right now.

Dale Davis sucked. Yes, I said it & I'll say it again. Dale Davis sucked last night. He was being abused by Michael Ruffin. Like U.B. pointed out, I don't know if he was sick, injured or just having an off night but he offered nothing other than some solid interior defense.

But the reason we are so damn good right now is because even though Dale did not have it going on, we still won.

This is a team a real honest to God team. I don't know how deep we can go into the playoffs, but nobody & I mean nobody better think we will be walked on.

If you didn't watch the game & just read the box scores you will have no idea how important Austin Croshere was. Stat wise he didn't put up that much, nice freethrow shooting but that's about it. But my God did he put a body on every player on the front court of the Wiz. He really frustrated Kwame Brown in the second half & just out quicked Ethan Thomas.

Pollard again, was amazing with his smooth defense & his solid big body.

Damn that Ruffin kid is a pain. He's strong, jumps quick, jumps high & is fast. I thought Foster would be perfect for him but even he couldn't keep up with him. Thank God he got his fourth foul & for some unknown reason to me Jordan took him out & never brought him back.

Fred was very aggressive on both ends of the floor. He attacked the rim a lot & was rewarded with trips to the line.

A.J. for the most part handled the pressure they applied very well, which is something because they ball hawk a lot. I think we only ended up with 11 T.O.'s which is good vs. them.

Reggie once again was amazing. How is it that I want a 39 year old in the game to feel comfortable to be able to win? Arenas had nothing on him at all tonight & in fact they were haveing real trouble with him.

Jax seemed to really be forcing it on the floor. There were a lot of 1 on 3 & even a couple of 1 on 4 plays he was doing. I didn't see everything that U.B. saw but I could tell all night long there was some friction on the floor. Actually if you think back to the N.Y. game A.J. & Jax had a little problem over a missed pass in the corner.

Remember we were warned he is high strung, but I think it will pass.

Ok, how many now are going to once again say that we are just beating a weaker team? How many are not going to give credit for winning again?

It just kills me to see people not aknowleding the fact that we are on fire. I go to games now expecting to win, no long hoping to stay competative.

Anthem
04-09-2005, 02:21 AM
At halftime, I saw the score was tied at 44 and I thought "Yep, this one's in the bag." Because if we're not massively down to start the game, we're gonna win that sucker.

I feel pretty good right now.

Lord Helmet
04-09-2005, 03:52 AM
At halftime, I saw the score was tied at 44 and I thought "Yep, this one's in the bag." Because if we're not massively down to start the game, we're gonna win that sucker.

I feel pretty good right now.
So do I. We are playing very well now. It feels great. :cool:

Unclebuck
04-09-2005, 10:32 AM
but I could tell all night long there was some friction on the floor. Actually if you think back to the N.Y. game A.J. & Jax had a little problem over a missed pass in the corner.

Remember we were warned he is high strung, but I think it will pass.

Ok, how many now are going to once again say that we are just beating a weaker team? How many are not going to give credit for winning again?

It just kills me to see people not aknowleding the fact that we are on fire. I go to games now expecting to win, no long hoping to stay competative.



The sense I get with Jax is he gets a little emotional during the game, and sometimes that gets the best of him, but that when he calms down he is fine and corrects any problems he might have with players or coaches.

From what I've seen of Jax he is extremely talented. There is not much he can't do on the court. He might not be quite the caliber of players like Kobe, T-Mac, Bron, Wade, Ivy, but he is not far behind. He's just turned 27 and he is a late bloomer, so there is no telling how good he can be, it is up to him because the talent is all there.


Peck, the Pacers are playing extremely well, they are 13-5 since Dale signed. 18 games is almost 1/4 of the season, so it is more than just a hot streak.

Hicks
04-09-2005, 10:49 AM
Just watched some of the Post-game show and Chris Denari interviewed AJ and they showed a clip of AJ and Jax arguing. AJ said he said something that was taken the wrong way in the heat of battle and he apologized to Jax in the locker room and all is now well.......

Funny how this is getting ignored (apparently).

Alabama-Redneck
04-09-2005, 11:09 AM
This is from the Indianapolis Star this morning.

Tempers flare

Jackson and Johnson had a heated exchange late in the fourth quarter of Friday's game.

The incident started with about two minutes remaining. Rather than use the shot clock, Jackson took an ill-advised 3-pointer from the corner.

Once a timeout was called with 54 seconds left, Jackson, clearly upset over what was said to him by Johnson, came to the sideline yelling at his teammate. The coaching staff and players had to restrain Jackson.

"A.J. was right and I was wrong; it just came out wrong," Jackson said afterward. "We straightened it out. I didn't see the shot clock and it was a terrible shot. Just the way he said it to me frustrated me. I love A.J. We talked about it and it's over."

Sounds to me like it is over and done.

:cool:

PacerMan
04-09-2005, 11:12 AM
Jax spent like 2 weeks in Fort Wayne for the Fury before Isiah *****head ruined the CBA. Huge talent for that league, it was 'understood' that he always had NBA talent.
Needed time and experience for his 'head' to catch up.

Jermaniac
04-09-2005, 12:42 PM
This is from the Indianapolis Star this morning.

Tempers flare

Jackson and Johnson had a heated exchange late in the fourth quarter of Friday's game.

The incident started with about two minutes remaining. Rather than use the shot clock, Jackson took an ill-advised 3-pointer from the corner.

Once a timeout was called with 54 seconds left, Jackson, clearly upset over what was said to him by Johnson, came to the sideline yelling at his teammate. The coaching staff and players had to restrain Jackson.

"A.J. was right and I was wrong; it just came out wrong," Jackson said afterward. "We straightened it out. I didn't see the shot clock and it was a terrible shot. Just the way he said it to me frustrated me. I love A.J. We talked about it and it's over."

Sounds to me like it is over and done.

:cool:
Well that is very good to hear.

_PD_
04-09-2005, 01:26 PM
Now I'll respond about how we all like Jax2.

Isn't THIS what we first noticed about Artest? Wasn't this the baggage he brought with him from chicago?

But it was probably a minor thing, I dont think its going to ruin any chemistry.
Now, I'm not suggesting Jax2 has RA type problems, but this IS how stuff gets started. From what I've seen so far though he does get over it and apologizes and then gets along with everyone.

However, he IS dumb as a box of rocks.


I didn't see the shot clock
You don't have to see the clock to know there's plenty of time left -- like 18 seconds. These things keep happening and I guess they are the baggage he brings with him. If that's all it is, I can live with it, but don't anybody suggest he's going to be a contestant on Jeopardy.

Hicks
04-09-2005, 07:48 PM
Jack did and does not have the rep Ron had coming into Indiana.

Bball
04-09-2005, 08:38 PM
Now I'll respond about how we all like Jax2.

Isn't THIS what we first noticed about Artest? Wasn't this the baggage he brought with him from chicago?
.

No, Artest brought other baggage besides just being emotional on the court. Childish things...

For one thing: Medical problems that would flare up and disappear just as quickly causing him to miss games... And always with questionable timing.

-Bball

Bball
04-09-2005, 09:19 PM
Hey Bball, just curious, will that quote [in your sig] come out anytime soon?.....

What if that is the karmic thread that binds this run for the playoffs together?

I take that out of my sig, throw the universe off-kilter, and the team goes on a losing streak... how could I live with that?

-Bball

pacerwaala
04-09-2005, 11:31 PM
This is from the Indianapolis Star this morning.

Tempers flare

Jackson and Johnson had a heated exchange late in the fourth quarter of Friday's game.

The incident started with about two minutes remaining. Rather than use the shot clock, Jackson took an ill-advised 3-pointer from the corner.

Once a timeout was called with 54 seconds left, Jackson, clearly upset over what was said to him by Johnson, came to the sideline yelling at his teammate. The coaching staff and players had to restrain Jackson.

"A.J. was right and I was wrong; it just came out wrong," Jackson said afterward. "We straightened it out. I didn't see the shot clock and it was a terrible shot. Just the way he said it to me frustrated me. I love A.J. We talked about it and it's over."

Sounds to me like it is over and done.

:cool:

This is done but hope something else does not start and is done, and ...
You need to be more level headed than that. However, I am glad he accepted that he was at fault and was man enough to admit it.

Jermaniac
04-10-2005, 12:57 AM
What if that is the karmic thread that binds this run for the playoffs together?

I take that out of my sig, throw the universe off-kilter, and the team goes on a losing streak... how could I live with that?

-BballIf you take it out of your sig and we start losing I know who to look for. ;)

ChicagoJ
04-11-2005, 12:47 PM
This is from the Indianapolis Star this morning.

Tempers flare

Jackson and Johnson had a heated exchange late in the fourth quarter of Friday's game.

The incident started with about two minutes remaining. Rather than use the shot clock, Jackson took an ill-advised 3-pointer from the corner.

Once a timeout was called with 54 seconds left, Jackson, clearly upset over what was said to him by Johnson, came to the sideline yelling at his teammate. The coaching staff and players had to restrain Jackson.

"A.J. was right and I was wrong; it just came out wrong," Jackson said afterward. "We straightened it out. I didn't see the shot clock and it was a terrible shot. Just the way he said it to me frustrated me. I love A.J. We talked about it and it's over."

Sounds to me like it is over and done.

:cool:

I stayed offline all weekend so that I wouldn't subject all of my PD friends to my response to this thread.

But here I am and here it is... (read at your own risk.)

:soundoff:
I'm longing for the days when we don't need a "calming influence" a la Mike Brown, Chuck Person, etc.

Why can't we get some *professional* basketball players, instead of just basketball players?

Someday, in the distant future, after this team is broken up without any rings, we might get some veteran type players back in here that (a) wouldn't take that shot in the first place, and (b) if they did they wouldn't throw a temper-tantrum when one of the team's leaders points out that "that was a really ****ing stupid shot" because they'll be apologizing to their teammates for "taking such a ****ing stupid shot."

Kissing and making-up after the game is much easier when you've just finished burying the opponent. What if this situation had occurred late in the Knicks game - would we have been able to overcome it? And if not, would it still be festering?

:suicide: :soundoff:

Someone above tried to compare SJax's baggage to Artest's baggage. Let's review the scouting report on SJax. We collectively acknowledged last summer that SJax was a talented player/ streaky scorer with a reputation for being a hothead (emotional) and a penchant for turnover and poor shot selection. Seems to me he's proving everyone to be right.

I'm not sure, when Artest was in Chicago, he had any major "on-court" problems. There was the G-Rob fight, and the time he tried to go after the Pacers' fans at CFH, but mostly he was a pain in the @$$ for his coaches, management and teammates off the court. The first time I thought he might be a knucklehead on-the-court was in the Phoenix game, shortly after we traded for him.

There are some similarities there, but it seems to me that SJax is mostly just immature while Ron needs a whole team of people working full-time to keep him focused.

Of course, I'd trade both of them for some mature veterans that will accept thier roles ... :devil:

Jermaniac
04-11-2005, 01:22 PM
Yeah trade 2 of our 3 best players for some 33-36 year olds. Who cares if they suck, all they need to be is some stone faced ****s who dont show any emotion.

Hicks
04-11-2005, 03:23 PM
In 2002 Tinsley refued to shoot open shots in the playoffs, and Reggie yelled at him on the court and Tinsley negatively shouted back. Somebody trade that guy.

Unclebuck
04-11-2005, 03:30 PM
I stayed offline all weekend so that I wouldn't subject all of my PD friends to my response to this thread.

But here I am and here it is... (read at your own risk.)

:soundoff:
I'm longing for the days when we don't need a "calming influence" a la Mike Brown, Chuck Person, etc.

Why can't we get some *professional* basketball players, instead of just basketball players?

Someday, in the distant future, after this team is broken up without any rings, we might get some veteran type players back in here that (a) wouldn't take that shot in the first place, and (b) if they did they wouldn't throw a temper-tantrum when one of the team's leaders points out that "that was a really ****ing stupid shot" because they'll be apologizing to their teammates for "taking such a ****ing stupid shot."

Kissing and making-up after the game is much easier when you've just finished burying the opponent. What if this situation had occurred late in the Knicks game - would we have been able to overcome it? And if not, would it still be festering?

:suicide: :soundoff:

Someone above tried to compare SJax's baggage to Artest's baggage. Let's review the scouting report on SJax. We collectively acknowledged last summer that SJax was a talented player/ streaky scorer with a reputation for being a hothead (emotional) and a penchant for turnover and poor shot selection. Seems to me he's proving everyone to be right.

I'm not sure, when Artest was in Chicago, he had any major "on-court" problems. There was the G-Rob fight, and the time he tried to go after the Pacers' fans at CFH, but mostly he was a pain in the @$$ for his coaches, management and teammates off the court. The first time I thought he might be a knucklehead on-the-court was in the Phoenix game, shortly after we traded for him.

There are some similarities there, but it seems to me that SJax is mostly just immature while Ron needs a whole team of people working full-time to keep him focused.

Of course, I'd trade both of them for some mature veterans that will accept thier roles ... :devil:



Spoken as we lose in the first round every year

ChicagoJ
04-11-2005, 04:23 PM
Spoken as we lose in the first round every year

Did I miss something? This team's only been out of the first round once since 1999-2000. Sometimes you sound like we're about to 3-peat. :D

And if they get out of the first round this season, its because they replaced young, fragile hotheads with vets like AJ, Reggie, Dale, Croshere and Pollard. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for this soap opera called "The Young and the Clueless".

ChicagoJ
04-11-2005, 05:05 PM
Hate to break it to ya, but "the young and the clueless" as you put it got us to the ECF last season

Yep. That was the high point. Its all downhill from here.

Sincerely,
Mr. C. Ken Little (first name = "Chick")

:D

Natston
04-11-2005, 05:14 PM
http://www.itc.virginia.edu/virginia.edu/fall99/images/titleart.gif
http://tonova.typepad.com/thesuddencurve/chicken_little_40.jpg

Jermaniac
04-11-2005, 05:19 PM
Did I miss something? This team's only been out of the first round once since 1999-2000. Sometimes you sound like we're about to 3-peat. :D

And if they get out of the first round this season, its because they replaced young, fragile hotheads with vets like AJ, Reggie, Dale, Croshere and Pollard. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for this soap opera called "The Young and the Clueless". LOL The guy didnt put Stephen in the group because he shows emotion. How about Rick starts Croshere at SF and doesnt play Jack the whole series in the play offs and we will see how we get out of the first round with that all mighty vet starting line up.

ChicagoJ
04-11-2005, 06:01 PM
I'm Chuck Person's biggest fan -- "showing emotion" doesn't phase me.

I've lost all my remaining tolerance for immaturity/ poor decision making from these guys, however. The two guys on the team that I'd be inclined to keep (JO, Tinsley) are always hurt.

Kstat
04-11-2005, 06:04 PM
I'm Chuck Person's biggest fan -- "showing emotion" doesn't phase me.

I've lost all my remaining tolerance for immaturity/ poor decision making from these guys, however. The two guys on the team that I'd be inclined to keep (JO, Tinsley) are always hurt.

Yeah, but maybe if Chuck didn't go out of his way to trash-talk larry bird all the time, larry wouldn't have been so determined to knock him out of the playoffs..... ;)

Anthem
04-11-2005, 06:07 PM
The two guys on the team that I'd be inclined to keep (JO, Tinsley) are always hurt.

That's not true. There's only 2 guys on the team you'd like to get rid of: Artest and Jackson.

Let's not overstate or anything.

grace
04-11-2005, 06:10 PM
Here's my take on what's wrong with basketball and the world in general:

Men are now getting PMS and having periods all their own.

Gentlemen, welcome to my hell.

ChicagoJ
04-11-2005, 06:15 PM
Funny. I've been walking around all weekend saying I wish they'd have fifteen new players for next season.

I'm this close (and when I hold my hand up my fingers are actually touching) to finding a new hobby to replace the Pacers.

Kstat
04-11-2005, 06:18 PM
Funny. I've been walking around all weekend saying I wish they'd have fifteen new players for next season.

I'm this close (and when I hold my hand up my fingers are actually touching) to finding a new hobby to replace the Pacers.

..you could be a :celtics: fan.......

they seem to bring in 14 new players every season, so you'd feel right at home.

SoupIsGood
04-11-2005, 06:28 PM
I'm going to become a bandwagon fan, it's so much easier.


GO PISTONS/HEAT/SPURS/SUNS/LEBRON!!!!

ChicagoJ
04-11-2005, 06:37 PM
..you could be a :celtics: fan.......



I'm ignoring your Larry Bird comment, but those are fighting words.

:box:

sixthman
04-11-2005, 11:26 PM
but don't anybody suggest he's going to be a contestant on Jeopardy.

I'd rather Jack continue to work on his shooting.

There are different kinds of intelligence. Jackson's basketball I.Q. is much higher than that of most Jeopardy contestants, I'd wager. ;)

Jermaniac
04-11-2005, 11:35 PM
Funny. I've been walking around all weekend saying I wish they'd have fifteen new players for next season.

I'm this close (and when I hold my hand up my fingers are actually touching) to finding a new hobby to replace the Pacers.Yeah too bad it wont happen and probably only 2 new rookies will come next year and those same immature guys will stay around and go to the finals. I bet you would be pissed to see Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson holding up that Championship trophy just because you dont like them.

indygeezer
04-11-2005, 11:51 PM
I'm not a fan of Stephen Jackson either...and I too have stayed out of this, until now.

I'll simply say we too many hotheads and extremists on this team for my liking.

But I'll also say this, there was a time when I didn't like that brash young arrogant gunner named Reggie Miller. So I'll give him some time...but I'll have my eye on him the whole time.

_PD_
04-12-2005, 12:03 AM
I'd rather Jack continue to work on his shooting. Me too. I think he'll get it.


There are different kinds of intelligence. Jackson's basketball I.Q. is much higher than that of most Jeopardy contestants, I'd wager.
I'd agree with that. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have the bball iq of most jr high players. The guy is supposed to be a pro. I just want him to act like one. I'll take a mature Tim Duncan attitude any day over a Rafer Alston or Iverson, without regard to their skills.

Do I want our players to play with emotion and bravado? Sure. Do I want them to be yelling at each other on the court and getting their noses bent out of joint? No.

PacerMan
04-12-2005, 12:07 AM
Funny. I've been walking around all weekend saying I wish they'd have fifteen new players for next season.

I'm this close (and when I hold my hand up my fingers are actually touching) to finding a new hobby to replace the Pacers.

I don't know what team you've been watching, but most of us are VERYYYYYYYYYYY happy with the way this team is playing without of it's best players!