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NotLosingButWinning
04-08-2005, 02:09 PM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=walton_bill&id=2031968
Miller facing crunch time on retirement decision

"Playing in the NBA, like most things in life, is a choice to be made by the individual. It's Reggie Miller's life and who are we to tell anyone what to do with his time. As a fan of the NBA and Miller, I would love to see this ageless wonder continue on forever, but he's already given us everything he has, and more, for the last 19 years. Far too often, we think that athletes and entertainers in the public domain owe us what we want. That's true, to the extent that once they have signed a contract to perform, we can then reasonably expect a consistent and professional effort to produce their best until the expiration of that contract.

Every player is different. Some play until they have nothing left, often leaving under sad and crippling circumstances. Some walk into the sunset with nary a glance over their shoulder.

Miller is more than capable of playing in the NBA at a very high level for at least a few more years. There are very few players in the history of basketball who have come close to producing what Reggie has given us. His unparalleled game of movement, skill, physical fitness and commitment to the team is perfect for the long run that he's given us. A testament to his fitness is the fact that while Reggie is 39 years old, one could never tell by watching him play.

Because of all the problems this year that have ruined the Indiana Pacers' championship aspirations, many of them self-inflicted, he's been asked to do more than reasonably could be expected. He's playing extremely heavy minutes 32 mpg, the most he's played in the last three seasons and this was supposed to be a year of coming off the bench in spurts and mentoring for him.

Miller is a class act who never had the privilege and opportunity to play with a truly great teammate or in a major media market. Yet his numerical accomplishments are simply staggering and all this from a guy who was booed by the fans on the day the Pacers drafted him 11th overall in 1987 out of UCLA. The same fans who, today, can't get enough of him, were clamoring for Steve Alford almost two decades ago. Thank goodness for Donnie Walsh!

I would like to say that Reggie Miller is a sure first-ballot Hall of Fame inductee, but after the disgrace of what happened to Dominique Wilkins this week, I'm not sure of anything anymore! But it is safe to say with certainty that Reggie is one of the absolutely best at what he does. Like David Robinson and John Stockton, Reggie is leaving on his terms, with his head held high and what could be better than that.

Reggie still has many options open. He could change his mind and stick around for what promises to be a better ending than what the Pacers are facing this season or he could go play for another team, with better players who can possibly carry him to the championship. Or he can do what he's said all along and just walk away at the end of the day.

Admirably, Reggie has not tried to do anything to draw attention to himself as the end draws ever near, just letting the team, the playoffs and the game be the story. Whatever happens, we are better off for what Reggie has given us his best. It's his life, please thank him for his many gifts to us, and respect his decision whatever it might be.

I do think, though, that he does owe something and that's a public apology to sideline reporter Craig Sager for denying the very true report that he was going to retire. "

Skaut_Ech
04-08-2005, 02:15 PM
I do think, though, that he does owe something and that's a public apology to sideline reporter Craig Sager for denying the very true report that he was going to retire. "


I've been thinking the same thing. He tried to make Sager look like a fool, when it's pretty obvious that he got a scoop. Reggie just didn't like the timing of it.

travmil
04-08-2005, 02:18 PM
I've been thinking the same thing. He tried to make Sager look like a fool, when it's pretty obvious that he got a scoop. Reggie just didn't like the timing of it.

A scoop that Reggie was probably wanting his sister to break. I think that's why it upset him, it was supposed to be Cheryl breaking the news to fans, not Sager. If Sager knew he had a scoop, he also knew who it was for. I'm not up on the ethics of journalism (HA!) but this sounds fishy to me.

NotLosingButWinning
04-08-2005, 02:19 PM
didn't sager say that reggie announced to walsh and the team that he was retiring? as i recall reggie said that he never made that announcement, not that he wasn't going to retire. this is reggie's career and he deserved to make that announcement how and when he wanted to.

Mourning
04-08-2005, 02:22 PM
"or he could go play for another team, with better players who can possibly carry him to the championship"

Which team would that be, mate? ;)

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

rushmore
04-08-2005, 02:39 PM
I don't think Reggie owes any one an apology.

Everyone keeps clamoring about how great it is for Reggie to go out on his own terms. I feel that by Sager trying to get the "scoop" he didn't let that happen.

If we respect his desire go out on his own terms, shouldn't he be able to announce his retirement the way he wants to? Really, Sager took that away from him by trying to get the scoop. I think what Sager did was kind of selfish and crappy...

**I haven't enjoyed a Bill Walton article in a long time....

Harmonica
04-08-2005, 02:43 PM
**** Bill Walton. The guy's a douche bag.

Mourning
04-08-2005, 02:44 PM
**** Bill Walton.

Ibidem!'

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

ChicagoJ
04-08-2005, 02:45 PM
I usually like Walton (unlike most of you), but this time around I think he's an idiot.

Not for any one thing he said, but I'm getting tired of the "Reggie should not retire" talk. Will we miss him? Duh.

The man has made his decision, and announced it publicly. Show him some repsect and let it be.

DisplacedKnick
04-08-2005, 03:07 PM
didn't sager say that reggie announced to walsh and the team that he was retiring? as i recall reggie said that he never made that announcement, not that he wasn't going to retire. this is reggie's career and he deserved to make that announcement how and when he wanted to.

Yeah - Sager asked Reggie to comment on what he'd heard from Walsh. What would have made that exchange really interesting would have been Sager replying, "So, are you saying that Donnie Walsh is a liar?"

Bball
04-08-2005, 03:19 PM
Yeah - Sager asked Reggie to comment on what he'd heard from Walsh. What would have made that exchange really interesting would have been Sager replying, "So, are you saying that Donnie Walsh is a liar?"

Actually... what supposedly transpired was word filtered (directly and/or indirectly) to Sager that Reggie was retiring. He was making comments to teammates and the players believed this was Reggie's last season. Sager went to Walsh with that info and asked Walsh to comment. Walsh (supposedly) wasn't aware that Reggie had made a final decision and told Sager he'd want to talk with Reggie over the All Star break about this.

So Sager reported Reggie was planning to retire and Walsh would have a meeting over the All Star break.

Some people (I believe) jumped to the conclusion that Walsh knew of Reggie's retirement and the meeting was already in place and that Walsh had confirmed Reggie's retirement. I don't think Sager exactly said that but I'll leave that for those with better memories than me.

If my version is true then Sager couldn't have asked Reggie if Walsh was lying because Walsh wouldn't have been a source and Reggie would not have even known (yet) that Walsh wanted to meet with him over the All Star break. Walsh only 'knew' of the retirement because Sager told him his scoop in seeking a comment.

Hey... but maybe I was just fed the 'spin' version... But it sounds right to me.

-Bball

Destined4Greatness
04-08-2005, 04:01 PM
He does not owe him an apology. He wanted to wait till the end of the season and he had no class when he broke that story.

Anthem
04-08-2005, 04:13 PM
Bball, your story matches my recollections.

DisplacedKnick
04-08-2005, 04:28 PM
Bball, your story matches my recollections.

The only recollection I have is that Sager asked Reggie to respond to Donnie Walsh's telling him (Sager) that Reggie had announced to his teammates that he was going to retire.

As to what really happened, I have no idea though most analysts said that Sager's only fault was that he isn't Reggie Miller's sister.

brichard
04-08-2005, 04:31 PM
Well, here is the deal... nothing is official until A.) Reggie gives his consent for the story or B.) He announces it himself. Reggie could have told everybody he was retiring and then changed his mind. He has the right to do it under his own terms, and if it is okay for Sager to be totally disrespectful to Reggie with his "scoop," than turnabout is fair play for Sager.

I don't understand how somebody can exploit a very private decision, yet that is okay, but when Reggie tries to pay him back by denying it... that it is objectionable. Screw Sager and Walton, and long live Playoff Reggie!

DisplacedKnick
04-08-2005, 04:34 PM
Well, here is the deal... nothing is official until A.) Reggie gives his consent for the story or B.) He announces it himself. Reggie could have told everybody he was retiring and then changed his mind. He has the right to do it under his own terms, and if it is okay for Sager to be totally disrespectful to Reggie with his "scoop," than turnabout is fair play for Sager.

I don't understand how somebody can exploit a very private decision, yet that is okay, but when Reggie tries to pay him back by denying it... that it is objectionable. Screw Sager and Walton, and long live Playoff Reggie!

I think it's called "reporting the news."

ChicagoJ
04-08-2005, 04:40 PM
He does not owe him an apology. He wanted to wait till the end of the season and he had no class when he broke that story.

Who's "he"?

Anthem
04-08-2005, 05:39 PM
Who's "he"?

Reggie does not owe Sager an apology. Reggie wanted to break the story by giving an official announcement to his sister or Sir Charles. Craig heard some rumors (from the Indystar paper, probably) and started hitting people (starting with Walsh) up for quotes by saying Reggie had announced his retirement to Sager.

It might not have been absolutely classless of Sager, but it sure wasn't classy. And Reggie absolutely doesn't owe anybody an apology, least of all Sager.

Anthem
04-08-2005, 05:41 PM
I think it's called "reporting the news."

Nope. It's called "making it up."

Reporting that various teammates said Reggie was leaning towards retiring would be "reporting the news." Going to Walsh and asking for his reaction on Reggie's announcement (that Reggie never actually made) is being a jerk.

ChicagoJ
04-08-2005, 05:54 PM
Reggie does not owe Sager an apology. Reggie wanted to break the story by giving an official announcement to his sister or Sir Charles. Craig heard some rumors (from the Indystar paper, probably) and started hitting people (starting with Walsh) up for quotes by saying Reggie had announced his retirement to Sager.

It might not have been absolutely classless of Sager, but it sure wasn't classy. And Reggie absolutely doesn't owe anybody an apology, least of all Sager.

The editor - of all people - missed my "butchered pronoun" question. :-p :D

Even the friendly folks at Purdue - of all places (IU alum humor, sorry) can get it right...

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_pronuse.html


Using Pronouns Clearly

Brought to you by the Purdue University Online Writing Lab (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/index.htm).




<HR>


Using Pronouns Clearly

Because a pronoun REFERS BACK to a noun or TAKES THE PLACE OF that noun, you have to use the correct pronoun so that your reader clearly understands which noun your pronoun is referring to.

Therefore, pronouns should:

1. AGREE in NUMBER
-boring -

2. AGREE in PERSON
- boring -

3. REFER CLEARLY to a specific noun.
Don't be vague or ambiguous.

NOT: Although the motorcycle hit the tree, it was not damaged. (Is "it" the motorcycle or the tree?)

NOT: I don't think they should show violence on TV. (Who are "they"?)

NOT: Vacation is coming soon, which is nice. (What is nice, the vacation or the fact that it is coming soon?)

NOT: George worked in a national forest last summer. This may be his life's work. (What word does "this" refer to?)

NOT: If you put this sheet in your notebook, you can refer to it. (What does "it" refer to, the sheet or your notebook?)


So again I ask d4g, who is "he"? Reggie or Sager or both?

Because, back on topic, I still think Sager owes Reggie and Cheryl (or Sir Charles) an apology for creating this whole mess. Craig Sager is an annoying little twit. Clearly, Reggie owes no apologies here.

Anthem
04-08-2005, 06:08 PM
The editor - of all people - missed my "butchered pronoun" question. :-p :D

:flirt:

I actually thought you were joking, but decided to respond as if you were serious. Prolly shoulda added some [sarc] tags or something.

pacerwaala
04-08-2005, 08:04 PM
It could very well be that Reggie did not make up his mind when Sager reported it. So it was "false reporting" at the time when Sager reported it. Probably Reggie was still thinking about it and made up his mind at a later time.

Sager just put two and two together and went ahead and reported it. It is easy to do make a conclusion that Reggie will retire when you see him hinting at retirement during the beginning of the season, deferring too much to other players and those other players having told Sager that Reggie told them that this was his last year.

Sager is classless, obnoxious fool.

pacerwaala
04-08-2005, 08:06 PM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=walton_bill&id=2031968
Miller facing crunch time on retirement decision




Because of all the problems this year that have ruined the Indiana Pacers' championship aspirations, many of them self-inflicted, he's been asked to do more than reasonably could be expected.





I do think, though, that he does owe something and that's a public apology to sideline reporter Craig Sager for denying the very true report that he was going to retire. "

F$$k you, Walton.

The remaining article was good.

brichard
04-08-2005, 11:54 PM
I think it's called "reporting the news."


I believe in Freedom of speech, but I also believe in having class. When Pete Rose was confronted on live TV with questions about him betting on baseball, that was the news, but it had no class. I get the impression from Reggie's words that he had let a close circle in on his decision, perhaps his sister, Sager found out and just spilled the beans for his own glory.

But regardless, Reggie should have the ability to announce his retirement on his own terms. And if what Sager did was "reporting the news," Reggie paid him back for "being a jerk."

kerosene
04-09-2005, 05:15 AM
Whoever makes Craig Sager's hairpieces owes anyone who watches NBA basketball an apology.

Before reading that I just knew that Walton would find a way to mention UCLA.

I think Reggie was more surprised than anything that Sager let the cat out of the bag but Sager probably thought he was doing what he supposed to be doing. He is supposed to be breaking stories and reporters who break stories tend to be more highly thought of and slightly better paid than the person doing the AP writeups on the Iona women's NCAA team.

Whether this is ethical or not. Well, somebody told Sager. Did he breach that person's trust? Maybe. Did that person breach Reggie's trust? Maybe. Was it a middle man? Maybe. I have the feeling that it wasn't anybody's story to break nor was it an extremely well kept secret. I sort of think Reggie wouldn't want a goodbye tour as it could cause distractions for the team to have that every night in every city. The idea that Reggie would've played out the season then retired at a news conference does not seem all that farfetched to me.

Anthem
04-09-2005, 12:10 PM
Whether this is ethical or not. Well, somebody told Sager.

I don't think so. Pollard had a quote in the paper 2 days before, saying something along the lines of "Well since Reggie won't be here next year...." It's well-known that both ESPN and TNT read the Pacers articles from a week before the game to "get ready" (if you doubt it, think of how many times the main points of a standard article on player X get discussed without attribution by the talking heads).

Sager shows no signs being a man who actually does any investigative reporting if he can't be on camera doing it.

Bball
04-09-2005, 12:16 PM
In the end...
I have no problem with what Sager did. He found out Reggie's been telling teammates this is his last year and Sager ran with it. It's called reporting.

I suppose the only lax part of it was he could've went to Reggie for a comment and included that in his piece up front. I can guess why he didn't do that but it would only be a guess.

-Bball

Anthem
04-09-2005, 12:32 PM
I have no problem with what Sager did. He found out Reggie's been telling teammates this is his last year and Sager ran with it. It's called reporting.

He misrepresented the situation in an effort to generate quotes from Donnie, then he used those as a club over Reggie. I don't have any lingering beef with him, because Reggie called him out on live national television. It's even, as far as I'm concerned.

But the idea that Reggie was the one in the wrong is bupkis.

kerosene
04-09-2005, 05:27 PM
I don't think so. Pollard had a quote in the paper 2 days before, saying something along the lines of "Well since Reggie won't be here next year...." It's well-known that both ESPN and TNT read the Pacers articles from a week before the game to "get ready" (if you doubt it, think of how many times the main points of a standard article on player X get discussed without attribution by the talking heads).

Sager shows no signs being a man who actually does any investigative reporting if he can't be on camera doing it.

True, maybe I should've said "Sager found out somehow". The only thing that I think Sager would be guilty of is being untrustworthy and that's if Reggie or Cheryl told him and the implication was that it was to be kept hush hush. As a journalist that wouldn't be unethical, it would however make him a scumbag :)

I really enjoyed the Reggie interview with John Thompson the other night. It was one of those things that made me really proud to be Pacer fan.