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View Full Version : Are we better off losing to Washington on Friday?



Reggie4Three
04-07-2005, 09:43 AM
Right now, I feel like the 6 seed is better than both the 4 and 5 seeds.

1. I want no part of the Bulls in the playoffs. We've looked pretty bad against them this year.
2. Washington's guards now scare me more than the Pierce/Walker combo.
3. We can get homecourt as a six seed. We won't have it as a five.
4. If by some chance we get the four seed, we'd have to play the Bulls. I'd rather play the Celtics without homecourt than the Bulls with it.
5. The 6/3 matchup gets to play the Pistons in the second round while the winner of the 4/5 has to play the Heat.

I'm not suggesting that the Pacers throw this game, or even that I want the Pacers to lose. I just think the Pacers have a better shot to do more in the playoffs from the 6 seed.

Personally, whenever it could potentially become favorable to lose in a playoff race the NBA needs to look at how it's doing things. In this case, I think they need to look to NOT give the 3 seed to the 3rd division winner automatically.

Harddrive7
04-07-2005, 09:51 AM
I think that we just keep winning and see where everything falls. I seriosuly doubt that losing that one game will make a huge difference for the fact there are still several more games to be played.

Keep winning period. Right now I think that this team can pretty much beat anyone in the east in a series besides Miami and Detroit. I think they we would have a chance against those two teams but not a very good one.

Unclebuck
04-07-2005, 10:05 AM
I don't know if the Celts would be any easier at all. Playoff experience is very important and the Celts have it, the Bulls and Wizards do not. Walker and Pierce have been to the 6th game of the ECF and the following season they beat the Pacers, so I think that will help the Celts a lot.

If the pacers end up with the 3rd best record in the eastern conference that will be something to behold

_PD_
04-07-2005, 10:14 AM
Personally, whenever it could potentially become favorable to lose in a playoff race the NBA needs to look at how it's doing things
This is an ongoing issue in sports. Any time there is a round robin (regular season) followed by a tournament or knockout (playoffs) there can be abuses of "sportsmanship".

This has been a huge issue in soccer. In one particular instance, two Caribbean teams met in the last game of the round robin. If either team won, neither would make it into the knockouts (final 4). But if the score was tied AND the score was 2-2, BOTH teams made it in. Take a guess on the final score.

In bridge, you sometimes see a powerful team which has already made the finals, deliberately lose a preliminary match to a weak opponent because they will then meet this opponent in the finals instead of a more powerful one. Or will meet this weaker opponent in the first round of the finals and the more powerful one later instead of vice versa.

And there's frequently an nba team that seems to tank the last 10+ games of the season in order to upgrade its lottery chances. Should Portland have made trades before the deadline in order to perhaps improve its season or do what it did and give its young guys more playing time and experience for next year?

The final point I guess comes down to your definition of sportsmanship. Is it trying your best at all times or is it doing whatever you need to do, even using the rules to your advantage, to gain a more favorable final outcome? The answer is probably in changing the rules, but that's not always easy.

sixthman
04-07-2005, 10:21 AM
Interesting dilemma. I guess I want us to keep winning.

Fourth, and the third best record in the East, would be the best place for us to be.

Fifth would not be so hot.

Sixth is just fine.

Ragnar
04-07-2005, 10:36 AM
I say go for the win. Curry is out right now and the Bulls have no playoff experience. They could fall to the sixth putting us against the Wiz who also have no playoff experience. Its better to win than to lose to in order to get a lower seed. Plus I cant imagine Rick even considering losing when he could win.

NewType
04-07-2005, 10:46 AM
I say go for the win. Curry is out right now and the Bulls have no playoff experience. They could fall to the sixth putting us against the Wiz who also have no playoff experience. Its better to win than to lose to in order to get a lower seed. Plus I cant imagine Rick even considering losing when he could win.

Absolutely. We need to keep our instinct sharp. We have been playing well and we should just keep doing that.

Doug
04-07-2005, 10:59 AM
I firmly believe that you just have to keep the focus on winning. If we get Chicago, fine. Boston, fine. Washington, fine. Bring 'em on!

_PD_
04-07-2005, 11:44 AM
I firmly believe that you just have to keep the focus on winning. If we get Chicago, fine. Boston, fine. Washington, fine. Bring 'em on!
Yeah. The rest of them should be scrambling to avoid US.

Diesel
04-07-2005, 11:51 AM
There are 3 teams that are a cut above the rest of the eastern conference teams. Everybody knows the first two are Miami and Detroit but I believe the Celtics are the 3rd best team, of course this changes if Walker can't play or isn't 100%.I like our chances against either Chicago or Washington.

Jermaniac
04-07-2005, 12:15 PM
Deng and Curry are hurt, more then a half of their team never played a playoff game in their life, I would much more play them then the Celtics.

Los Angeles
04-07-2005, 12:21 PM
Nobody should intentionally lose.

Ever.

Period.

Gyron
04-07-2005, 12:44 PM
As the ultimate show or respect, every team we face in the playoffs should lose on purpose to give Reggie his ring and give Stern a mental breakdown....lol.....

Yeah I know it won't and wouldn't ever happen, but wouldn't Stern crap his pants if that happened.....

Los Angeles
04-07-2005, 12:52 PM
As the ultimate show or respect, every team we face in the playoffs should lose on purpose to give Reggie his ring and give Stern a mental breakdown....lol.....

Yeah I know it won't and wouldn't ever happen, but wouldn't Stern crap his pants if that happened.....
The possibility of a deep Pacers run has stern crapping his pants already.

Gyron
04-07-2005, 12:55 PM
It looks like Harrison is crapping his pants in your avatar........

Los Angeles
04-07-2005, 12:58 PM
It looks like Harrison is crapping his pants in your avatar........
HAHAHA - Everything I write comes from Harrison's butt. Or mine, at least. :D

Reggie4Three
04-07-2005, 12:58 PM
Nobody should intentionally lose.

Ever.

Period.

I never suggested we would or should. That's why I phrased the question the way I did. IMO, we're better off as a 6 seed (better 1st AND 2nd round opponents, again, IMO). Therefore, I see the 6 seed as the seed I want the Pacers to get. The best way for them to get that seed is to lose to Washington I think. I don't want them to lose, I don't think they should try to lose. IF they lose though, I don't think it hurts at all. In fact, I think they could possibly be better off.

Los Angeles
04-07-2005, 01:11 PM
Gotcha.

I guess it all depends on who you want to face in the first round: Boston, Chicago or Washington.

I'll take Chicago or Washington over Boston, but arguments can be (and have been) made either way in the thread already.

I also would rather meet Detroit in the ECFs and take care of Miami before them. A broken-in JO will be a nice weapon against Detroit. Our current "vintage reggie" offense will be good against Miami, so I say lets face them sooner.

You have to win four 7-game series in a row against the best of the best to win it all. Only one team a year is capable of accomplishing that. And usually, they fear noone.

Despite our "reality," we need to have that heart, that spirit that says "we'll take anyone, any where, any time."

Bball
04-07-2005, 01:25 PM
I think the act of winning negates any benefit to 'losing'... even if that loss might set us up with a more 'winnable' (on paper) scenario.

More winning IMHO actually improves our chances of even 'more winning' no matter who the opponent.

-Bball

beast23
04-07-2005, 01:33 PM
I don't think you risk mixing up what has been working for you.

Just keep on "keeping on". Take them one at a time, and win every game you can.

I think that Boston's record will actually slip below Indiana's Washington's and Chicago's. Boston will be a #3 seed with the 6th best record, and no homecourt advantage, regardless of who they play.

I no longer think the Pacers will be the 6th seed. They will pass one or both of the Wiz or the Bulls.

All 4 teams play similar competition in their remaining games. The home - aways are the Pacers 5-3, Boston 2-5 (with the Heat being one of their two home games), Washington 5-3 and Chicago 4-4 (with the Pistons being one of their home games).

The Pacers play only one game on the road against a team with a better record... Miami. Probably the best we will finish is 7-1, putting our best possible record at 47-35.

I could see Boston losing a couple of games on the road, as well as the Miami game at home, to finish 4-3, possibly putting their record at 45-37.

Assuming the Wiz lose to us on Friday, I could also see them losing an additional game, finishing at 6-2, or a 47-35 record.

The Bulls, with their key injury, are probably the most unpredictable. Assuming a loss to Detroit at home, to the Wiz on the road and of course, to our Pacers the last game of the season, I could see the Bulls finishing 5-3, for a record of 47-35.

So, one wacky scenario is the Bulls, Wiz and Pacers tied at 47-35 with Boston finishing 6th at 45-37.

I'm really not scared of any of the teams from 3 through 8. As long as we continue the way we are playing, we can beat them. Home or away.

With the addition of Dale, I believe we can play with either Detroit or Miami. I just have "reasonable doubts" about whether we can take them in 7 games, especially without home court advantage. But one thing is for certain. Neither of those two teams would look forward to playing us.

And if by some miracle the Pacers did emerge from the ECS, as long as we suffer no further injuries, whoever came out of the WCS wouldn't look forward to playing us either.

Bball
04-07-2005, 01:39 PM
I don't think you risk mixing up what has been working for you.

Just keep on "keeping on". Take them one at a time, and win every game you can.

I think that Boston's record will actually slip below Indiana's Washington's and Chicago's. Boston will be a #3 seed with the 6th best record, and no homecourt advantage, regardless of who they play.

I no longer think the Pacers will be the 6th seed. They will pass one or both of the Wiz or the Bulls.

All 4 teams play similar competition in their remaining games. The home - aways are the Pacers 5-3, Boston 2-5 (with the Heat being one of their two home games), Washington 5-3 and Chicago 4-4 (with the Pistons being one of their home games).

The Pacers play only one game on the road against a team with a better record... Miami. Probably the best we will finish is 7-1, putting our best possible record at 47-35.

I could see Boston losing a couple of games on the road, as well as the Miami game at home, to finish 4-3, possibly putting their record at 45-37.

Assuming the Wiz lose to us on Friday, I could also see them losing an additional game, finishing at 6-2, or a 47-35 record.

The Bulls, with their key injury, are probably the most unpredictable. Assuming a loss to Detroit at home, to the Wiz on the road and of course, to our Pacers the last game of the season, I could see the Bulls finishing 5-3, for a record of 47-35.

So, one wacky scenario is the Bulls, Wiz and Pacers tied at 47-35 with Boston finishing 6th at 45-37.

I'm really not scared of any of the teams from 3 through 8. As long as we continue the way we are playing, we can beat them. Home or away.

With the addition of Dale, I believe we can play with either Detroit or Miami. I just have "reasonable doubts" about whether we can take them in 7 games, especially without home court advantage. But one thing is for certain. Neither of those two teams would look forward to playing us.

And if by some miracle the Pacers did emerge from the ECS, as long as we suffer no further injuries, whoever came out of the WCS wouldn't look forward to playing us either.


:welcome: :sunshine:

-Bball

NewType
04-07-2005, 01:39 PM
I think the act of winning negates any benefit to 'losing'... even if that loss might set us up with a more 'winnable' (on paper) scenario.

More winning IMHO actually improves our chances of even 'more winning' no matter who the opponent.

-Bball

I absolutely agree. Winnning breeds winning.

3Ball
04-07-2005, 03:13 PM
I think one of the biggest temptations when it comes to "intentionally" losing, is when it's appropriate to hold out your best player. What if you're out of the playoffs and are looking to move up in the lotto. Then your best player gets a mild sprain. Why hurry to bring him back? This also happens going the other direction with no problems. Teams hold out their best players at the end of the season when their playoff position is no longer in doubt. Why take the risk? But it seems like those two propositions aren't morally the same somehow.

Kstat
04-07-2005, 03:15 PM
This isn't a moral issue, its an IQ issue.

Anyone that INTENTIONALLY throws a game, because he thinks that will IMPROVE his team's playoff hopes, has a very low IQ.

Losing snowballs.

Slick Pinkham
04-07-2005, 03:48 PM
Boston now vs. Boston a month ago makes a big difference.

Walker has been hurt.

Rookies Jefferson, Tony Allen, Delonte West have experienced some "rookie wall" syndrome and in Jefferson's case some doghouse time for lack of defensive-mindedness.

Payton is hobbling A LOT and has no capable and consistent backup in West and Marcus Banks.

Pierce and Ricky Davis, as well as (don't laugh) Raef LaFrentz are carrying them now. Mark Blount continues to SUCK since getting his new big contract.

They are nowhere near as formidable and full of confidence as they were during their 11-1 stretch immediately following the trade for Antoine.

I'd love to see a Celtics-Pacers matchup, especially of course if the Pacers get home court. Even without home court, they are preferable to the Wizards or Bulls, assuming the Bulls get Curry back 100%.

NorCal_Pacerfan
04-07-2005, 04:05 PM
Keep winning. It gives us confidence and momentum going into the postseason. Plus practice against teams we may face... Win baby.

skyfire
04-07-2005, 08:33 PM
With the way the Pacers are playing atm, I think they would beat any one of the Celtics, Bulls or Wizards.

I think the Wizards might be the toughest matchup there, as Arenas and Hughes is a fast athletic backcourt and Jamison is a fairly big SF, not exactly playing to our defensive strengths.

Boston without Walker isn't that scary and the last time we played Chicago was a back2back where we really were flat. I dont think Curry would dominate as much if DD was fresh and Pollard has also been contributing significantly.

Intentionally losing a game to possibly gain a more favourable matchup is a very risky play which can backfire in alot of different ways. I see no reason to jepordise our current chemistry or position.

Anthem
04-07-2005, 08:39 PM
I agree with the others, I'll take any of Washington, Chicago, or Boston in a 7-game series. If the offense stays similar with Jermaine back, I'll feel great about our first AND second rounds.

EDIT: And no matter what, I'd always rather win. Remember how happy we were when we blew the last couple of games a couple of years ago, so we could face the "easy" Celtics in the playoffs? That didn't go so well.

Lord Helmet
04-07-2005, 08:41 PM
Also, don't the Pacers(AJ,JO,Ron,Jack,I think Hulk) have a court apperance tommorow? So, is there a chance they could miss the game? :uhoh: