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View Full Version : A couple thoughts on next season.



Anthem
04-06-2005, 07:26 PM
First, something that I realized when watching Jax work the post. Do you realize that next year, every single starter will have the ability to work the post? Dale, Jermaine, Artest, Jax, and Tinsley are all capable of scoring in the post. Dale's probably got the weakest post game, but it's respectable.

Next, I was pondering the relationship between Jermaine and Artest. Despite what Jay will tell you, I've never believed they were chummy. I do believe that they respect each other. We've heard before, though, that Artest felt alienated his first while here, especially after Brad Miller left. Jermaine, Al, and Bender are good friends and have admitted that, at times, they were a bit "clique-ish." With Al gone and Bender (hopefully) going, that group is broken up. That's the pre-point rambling; here's the beef. I've said before that Jax could be a good "bridge" between JO and Ron. I think Dale could be the same kind of player: a guy that both Ron and Jermaine like and respect. We can discuss this more if people would like.

I had something else, but I can't remember it. I'll post later.

ABADays
04-06-2005, 08:06 PM
We're waiting.

BigDawg44
04-06-2005, 09:32 PM
my main question is will we play the same style of TEAM ball next year that we are now. I mean this is fun entertaining SUCCESSFUL basketball. When we throw it into Jermaine or Ronnie backs into the basket ball movement stops and we get double teamed and turnovers occur. I mean, doing it everytime, we have to throw it in there...just not everytime down the court unless they are just dominating.

SoupIsGood
04-06-2005, 09:36 PM
Next season is one day closer.

I tell myself this everyday, if I think of the Pacers.

It will be fun.

Ragnar
04-06-2005, 09:40 PM
I think Rick will change the game plan a little once Jermaine is back. DD changes the game plan because of his blocking out and his shot blocking. It allows us to use the perimeter game more.

Los Angeles
04-06-2005, 10:23 PM
I think Rick will change the game plan a little once Jermaine is back. DD changes the game plan because of his blocking out and his shot blocking. It allows us to use the perimeter game more.
Why on earth should he change a game plan that's working?

This is the true test: can JOswallow his pride and give some of his touches to the jump shooters, who are giving us the best winning streak of the season?

Hicks
04-06-2005, 10:30 PM
Why on earth should he change a game plan that's working?

This is the true test: can JOswallow his pride and give some of his touches to the jump shooters, who are giving us the best winning streak of the season?

I think he means change the game plan we were using when JO was playing.

Unclebuck
04-06-2005, 10:31 PM
Why on earth should he change a game plan that's working?

This is the true test: can JOswallow his pride and give some of his touches to the jump shooters, who are giving us the best winning streak of the season?



I hope I'm not misinterpreting what you are saying. Are you saying the team is winning now because they are taking a lot of jumpers. I would say the Pacers are winning in spite of shooting so many jump shots.

There are a lot of reasons why the team is winning, but the increase jump shooting is not one of those.

Much, much better defense and rebounding are two big keys. Veteran experienced players, chemistry has been devopled wiht these guys playingwith few exception every game in a regular rotation.

Taking more jump shots is not a reason I would list.

Perhaps you are really saying better player and ball movement is helping the Pacers. I would agree with that. But I would much rather get a good post up shot than a good jump shot from the good ball and player movement.


As Reggie just said roles are clearly defined

As Fred just said their confidence is way up and the chemistry is really good

Arcadian
04-06-2005, 10:41 PM
We are benefiting from having a tough physical player on the court. That in my opinion is bigger than a style of offense. Physical play does wonders for rebounding, defense and wearing the other team down. I might even go as far to say that physicalness is the most underrated attribute in the NBA these days.

sixthman
04-06-2005, 10:49 PM
More guys are getting to touch the ball in scoring position now. When many different players get a shot every now and then, good team chemistry comes a lot easier.

Carlisle has a challenge before him when O'Neal becomes available to play; I have complete confidence that he'll figure out what to do.

Harmonica
04-06-2005, 11:13 PM
As wildly unpopular as this may be, the more games we play without Ron Artest, the more fun this team is to watch. Sorry.

Shame on you! You don't deserve to call yourself a Pacers fan. Thank God Sassan isn't here to read this bile.

Seriously though, aren't you the least bit intrigued by the prospect of a DD/JO/Ron/SJ/JT line-up?

Since86
04-06-2005, 11:16 PM
As wildly unpopular as this may be, the more games we play without Ron Artest, the more fun this team is to watch. Sorry.


Maybe so, but saying it that way spins it to suggest that because he's gone that's the reason. Put Harrison in there instead of Artest and it would become a debate.

I agree that this team is funner to watch than last years, but I don't think it's nessecarily because RA is gone, but the situation. Eventhough they go hand-in-hand. :confused: Whatever the case, I'm willing to see if it roles like this next year with everyone back and healthy.

diamonddave00
04-06-2005, 11:23 PM
I think once Jermaine comes back this team will be even more effective. In the games we've lost since JO has been out it been when Jax and Reggie struggled. We were left with no perimeter or inside game.

I don't think JO , will have any problem shooting less. The main reason he shot so much was Reggie was not being aggressive and Sjax was just just coming back and getting reacquainted with teammmates before JO got hurt.

When Jermaine comes back he and Dale should team well together inside. Dale will take the better offensive player and JO will be able to help with double teams and weak side defense.

Once Jermaine returns I can see him scoring around 18 ppg but boarding and defending better. He will give us a strong scoring bigman inside to go with SJax slashing and spot up 3's and Reggie's perimeter game.

PacerMan
04-06-2005, 11:24 PM
First, something that I realized when watching Jax work the post. Do you realize that next year, every single starter will have the ability to work the post? Dale, Jermaine, Artest, Jax, and Tinsley are all capable of scoring in the post. Dale's probably got the weakest post game, but it's respectable.

Next, I was pondering the relationship between Jermaine and Artest. Despite what Jay will tell you, I've never believed they were chummy. I do believe that they respect each other. We've heard before, though, that Artest felt alienated his first while here, especially after Brad Miller left. Jermaine, Al, and Bender are good friends and have admitted that, at times, they were a bit "clique-ish." With Al gone and Bender (hopefully) going, that group is broken up. That's the pre-point rambling; here's the beef. I've said before that Jax could be a good "bridge" between JO and Ron. I think Dale could be the same kind of player: a guy that both Ron and Jermaine like and respect. We can discuss this more if people would like.

I had something else, but I can't remember it. I'll post later.


I really like Jackson posting up a lot more than shooting outside jumpers.
Assuming we dump Artest(hopefully) I hope we get a 2 guard and play Jackson at the 3.

PacerMan
04-06-2005, 11:26 PM
As wildly unpopular as this may be, the more games we play without Ron Artest, the more fun this team is to watch. Sorry.


Wrong, everyone knows we can't possibly win any games without the magnificant one.

beast23
04-06-2005, 11:41 PM
For me, whether or not Artest is in the lineup has nothing to do with the enjoyment I have in watching the team.

As Buck stated, we are rebounding and defending better.

From an offensive perspective, our offense is significantly less predictable than it was with JO in the lineup. I am enjoying the offensive motion and screening, and the movement of the ball much more now than earlier in the season.

Before folks jump on that statement, I am NOT saying that I find fault with JO. He doesn't set the game plan; he merely helps execute it.

This team has a number of players capable of hitting open shots from virtually anywhere on the floor. That will help open up the paint for Jermaine to work, but it also means that our offensive plan does not have to always be inside-out.

In other words, due to the circumstances this season has brought upon us, the team has learned to play a variety of different offensive styles. When next season rolls around, we shouldn't ignore that, we should embrace it as a strength and not merely revert back to always playing a grind-it-out post game.

Since86
04-06-2005, 11:43 PM
Great post beast........

Anthem
04-06-2005, 11:57 PM
I don't understand what this has to do with Artest. Seriously, btown, it's like you're a living embodiment of Godwin's Law.

SoupIsGood
04-07-2005, 12:01 AM
I really like Jackson posting up a lot more than shooting outside jumpers.
Assuming we dump Artest(hopefully) I hope we get a 2 guard and play Jackson at the 3.

If we have to play an entire season with Jackson at the 3, we are screwed. He can't guard the big 3's.

SoupIsGood
04-07-2005, 12:01 AM
I don't understand why everyone get's so riled up whenever I mention him.

Sorry, I'll keep the joking isolated to "The Pub" from here out.

I got it. :flirt:

Anthem
04-07-2005, 12:09 AM
And I'm fairly confident that I've never mentioned Hitler or Nazis in any context in a thread. But not completely sure.

As the length of a thread increases, the likelihood that btown will mention Artest approaches 1.

Nobody seems excited about Point #1... that's something that I'm intrigued by. I don't think I've ever seen a team where EVERY SINGLE GUY can take a guy into the post.

SoupIsGood
04-07-2005, 12:22 AM
I don't think I've ever seen a team where EVERY SINGLE GUY can take a guy into the post.

I've been excited about it for quite some time now. On any given night, there is bound to be at least one mis-match in the post amongst Jermaine, Ron, Steve, and Jamaal.

I love Jamaal's post game, he has got some slick moves. It would be nice if he were just a bit taller.

Hicks
04-07-2005, 07:57 AM
If we have to play an entire season with Jackson at the 3, we are screwed. He can't guard the big 3's.

They don't get much bigger than LeBron, and he's not gotten embarassed this season by him the few games he's guarded him. Bron got his points, sure, but he had to work for most of them.

sixthman
04-07-2005, 10:17 AM
I'm not buying the argument that the Pacers ought to get rid of Artest because Jackson can play at small forward.

Steve Jackson is best used as a shooting guard; Ron Artest is a small forward. Both are excellent defenders at their primary position. Keep both. The upside, if the pseudo psychologists on this board are proved wrong, is positively spectacular. It's not like we are going to get Ray Allen or Michael Redd for Artest right now anyway.

Coach
04-07-2005, 11:01 AM
But I would much rather get a good post up shot than a good jump shot from the good ball and player movement.


Unclebuck,

I am also a firm believer of post up shots. My question to you is do you believe that JO's turn around jumper is a good post up shot.

Coach
04-07-2005, 11:21 AM
Peck will like this, I think that the Pacers success lately can be attributed to DD being back. He has brought back the toughness that has been missing since Artest has been gone. That toughness translates to better D by everyone on the team when you know that he is back there protecting your back.

RWB
04-07-2005, 01:07 PM
Peck will like this, I think that the Pacers success lately can be attributed to DD being back. He has brought back the toughness that has been missing since Artest has been gone. That toughness translates to better D by everyone on the team when you know that he is back there protecting your back.

Exactly, and just think when Artest who did help us win 61 games last year because of his toughness comes back. Would it surprise anyone to see the Pacers set a record next year for fewest points allowed with the line up we'll have?

beast23
04-07-2005, 02:10 PM
Unclebuck,

I am also a firm believer of post up shots. My question to you is do you believe that JO's turn around jumper is a good post up shot.
For me, it isn't a question of whether the shot is taken from the post.

I am a fan of taking an open shot as opposed to one that is well-defended.

I would rather take 4 wide-open shots from behind the arc, than 4 fade-away turn-around jumpers from a double-team. The difference is that we will hit at least one and possibly even two the wide-open 3s, whereas we will rarely make 50% of our well-defended jumpers in the paint.

So, even with JO back, we just keep moving the ball as we have for the last few weeks until we get the defenders out of position and we have a wide-open look at the basket.

PacerMan
04-07-2005, 02:30 PM
If we have to play an entire season with Jackson at the 3, we are screwed. He can't guard the big 3's.

IF we got a stud #2 and he knew in the offseason that he would be a 3 full time, maybe he can get bigger?
Or maybe that's what we draft. Don't forget we'd only be doing that if we got a real good 2 guard.
I think we'd be ok.

PacerMan
04-07-2005, 02:32 PM
They don't get much bigger than LeBron, and he's not gotten embarassed this season by him the few games he's guarded him. Bron got his points, sure, but he had to work for most of them.

Agreed, don't know why I didn't think about it before I posted. Stephens not THAT soft, and he's tall enough. Muscle him up a bit more and I think he'd be an excellent 3.
IF his offensive man takes him in the post repeatadly, he'll be going right into Jermaine/Dale/Hulk, that'd be ok with me. :)

PacerMan
04-07-2005, 02:34 PM
I'm not buying the argument that the Pacers ought to get rid of Artest because Jackson can play at small forward.

Steve Jackson is best used as a shooting guard; Ron Artest is a small forward. Both are excellent defenders at their primary position. Keep both. The upside, if the pseudo psychologists on this board are proved wrong, is positively spectacular. It's not like we are going to get Ray Allen or Michael Redd for Artest right now anyway.


The argument ISN"T that the Pacers ought to get rid of Artest because Jackson can play small forward.
The arguement IS that Stephen Jackson MIGHT be an able replacement for Ron Artest BECAUSE ARTEST IS A F'ING PSYCHO. :)

PacerMan
04-07-2005, 02:35 PM
Peck will like this, I think that the Pacers success lately can be attributed to DD being back. He has brought back the toughness that has been missing since Artest has been gone. That toughness translates to better D by everyone on the team when you know that he is back there protecting your back.

That's Artest AND Harrington............

Arcadian
04-07-2005, 02:39 PM
The best part of next season is what a healthy Bender will add.

beast23
04-07-2005, 03:00 PM
The best part of next season is what a healthy Bender will add. :laugh: And here I thought we might end the thread without so much as a mention.