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View Full Version : I have some issues #2



ABADays
04-06-2005, 12:22 PM
Why do so many hate on Gill? He was brought in as a #3 point guard and, personally, I think he's done a hell of a job. Some of you more knowledgeable about the technicalities of the position are probably going to call me out on this one - which will only lead me to the technical aspects of issue #3.

Unclebuck
04-06-2005, 12:44 PM
I don't like Gills game. Many people criticize Travis Best and AJ's point guard abilities, but I've said more than a few times that Gill's is the worst I've ever seen for a NBA point guard. His passing is beyond bad. I was shocked when he made a nice pas to Jeff last night on a pick and roll, but then he followed up with a couple of terrible passes. Rick yanked Gill pretty quickly last night.

Having said this. I like Gill's defense, he plays hard, can hit timely shots, seems like a good team guy.

So as a third string point guard, He's ok, but as a 2nd string, he just nis not very good .

Kegboy
04-06-2005, 01:15 PM
I don't like Gills game. Many people criticize Travis Best and AJ's point guard abilities, but I've said more than a few times that Gill's is the worst I've ever seen for a NBA point guard. His passing is beyond bad. I was shocked when he made a nice pas to Jeff last night on a pick and roll, but then he followed up with a couple of terrible passes. Rick yanked Gill pretty quickly last night.

Having said this. I like Gill's defense, he plays hard, can hit timely shots, seems like a good team guy.

So as a third string point guard, He's ok, but as a 2nd string, he just nis not very good .

Would you rather still have Jamison Brewer?

Bball
04-06-2005, 01:17 PM
I'm not as down on Gill as some are here. I prefer Gill over Travis Best because at least Gill knows he's a PG. But considering my opinion of Travis Best that isn't exactly saying much though.

I believe some here tend to be too harsh on PG's who aren't flashy (I'm not speaking of Ragnar and AJ here). I can't believe some of you were ready to drive Kevin Ollie to the airport or were happy to see Mark Jackson gone.

I half wonder if Travis didn't acquire the fans he did because of his scoring.... IMHO Travis should've felt more wrath from the forum collective than some of the others.

AJ has picked up his game and he had moments last year where he was frustrating to watch... and others where he was solid. His play against Detroit in the playoffs was very good. His return from injury was slow and seemed to show that it was a setback more than anything else. His normal game is better than that which I think is what we're seeing now that he has the reins to the offense (and is getting more and more comfortable there).

We could do far worse than Eddie Gill as a 3rd string PG who is almost guaranteed to get playing time behind the oft-injured Tinsley.

Or IOW... I think it is a short list of better 3rd string PG's who are out there (who fit this team- read: Know their role and don't make waves).

-Bball

3ptmiller
04-06-2005, 01:35 PM
There is not much to say about Gill, he is just an average backup PG.. i dont see him as a starter tho

Ragnar
04-06-2005, 01:51 PM
Last year and earlier this year (remember the huge losing streak we went through when J.T.went down) AJ just plain sucked. It was never about not being flashy it was about nearly committing a back court violation on every trip down the floor. It was about not being able to deliver the ball in rhythm.

For some reason about a month or so ago AJ seems to have figured out how to play point guard. I dont think anyone could be more happy about this than I am. I have never had anything personal against him, I just thought he was being miss used. I thought he should play the Steve Kerr role on this team because he could hit shots.

Gill is not playing any worse than he had earlier its just that AJ has passed him by. At the beginning of the year Gill was better than AJ. That does not mean Gill was good it meant AJ sucked bad. Now AJ is better than Gill.

I still have no doubt that we will not get past Detroit or Miami without J.T. because in the playoffs those two teams will figure out that all you need to do to AJ is to pressure him in the back court. We might be able to get past Boston without him (that is a huge compliment to AJ BTW)

Bball
04-06-2005, 02:02 PM
Last year and earlier this year (remember the huge losing streak we went through when J.T.went down) AJ just plain sucked. It was never about not being flashy


That is why I pointed out I wasn't talking about you and your past dislike of AJ's game. That was based on a whole different thing and I ended up joining the club with you. There was a point I thought Gill was playing better ball and deserved to be ahead of AJ in the rotation. Maybe AJ rushed it back... I don't know...

I wasn't down on him last year... but this year all your complaints were there on the court (and stat sheet) in full view and IMHO multiplied. But then he found his groove and is actually playing above last year's level.

-Bball

Suaveness
04-06-2005, 02:05 PM
I didn't have a problem with AJ last year. I thought he was one of the best backup PGs in the league, and I was happy to have him. I can't say that for Gill though. The guy just doesn't seem capable of running an offense.

Unclebuck
04-06-2005, 02:18 PM
I like Ollie more than Gill. I guess I would take Gill over Brewer only because Gill can hit a shot.

ChicagoJ
04-06-2005, 02:38 PM
I think Gill runs the team just fine for a third-string PG.

I'd rather have the kid we cut during last season's training camp - I'm airheading on his name - but I've got no problem with Gill. EDIT => Omar Cook.

IMO, ranking the recent backup PGs:
AJ > Ollie > Kenny Anderson > Cook > Gill > Rashad Wright > Jay@Section204 :D > Brewer > Erick Strickland> Travis Bust

Unclebuck
04-06-2005, 02:46 PM
I am shocked that so many of you don't and didn't like Travis. For the life of me I don't understand it. You all most have been going crazy when he finished games 1998 - 2000. IMO Travis getting hurt was a large factor in the pacers lsing to the Lakers in 2000. Oh well we don't want to go there.

I was a huge Erick Strickland fan. Best defensive guard the Pacers have in the past 20 years. But Isiah ruined him, I just wonder what Rick's calm structured approach could have done with Strick who has always been a bit wild. But man I loved his defense.


Jay, I kinda liked Cook also.

TheSauceMaster
04-06-2005, 02:57 PM
I don't kow how much really you can expect of a 3rd string PG who get's very little playing time. Gill's defense is good though I think , I think the reason AJ has improved is because his PT has increased.

ABADays
04-06-2005, 03:03 PM
I like Ollie more than Gill. I guess I would take Gill over Brewer only because Gill can hit a shot.

Letting Ollie go was a mistake.

Unclebuck
04-06-2005, 04:21 PM
Letting Ollie go was a mistake.


Perhaps but he got a very nice long term contract from the Cavs. ay more money and for longer term that he is worth

MSA2CF
04-06-2005, 05:49 PM
I "love" Gill. He's doing exactly what he's been asked and more. He deserves more credit than people give him.

waxman
04-06-2005, 07:04 PM
He's done a good job considering the role he's been forced into... he's not a great passer... but he's does some other things well.

Jermaniac
04-06-2005, 07:24 PM
Jay are you serious, Omar Cook > Eddie Gill?

Suaveness
04-06-2005, 07:36 PM
I liked Cook better than Gill too. But I thought Travis was better than everyone. I loved Travis when he was here, and was sad to see him go.

ChicagoJ
04-06-2005, 08:18 PM
I thought Cook could run the offense fairly well.

Dig through the archives for our discussion of him during last season's preseason. We covered him thoroughly at the time. I spent a lot of time on his during one of my game reports from the United Center... I've got to catch a train or else I'd dig it up and post the link myself.

Don't forget, we had KA and AJ, plus Tinsley. Cook was battling Brewer for the fourth PG position, and many of us believe the only reason Siggy stuck around was because he had guaranteed money (and, maybe he kinda helped keep Ron in line?).

Harmonica
04-06-2005, 09:51 PM
COMING SOON:

ABADays' I have some issues #3: Why do so many hate on Bender?

ABADays
04-06-2005, 09:55 PM
Bender? You mean the guy who never plays? "Breakout" Bender? Couldn't tell you.

Ragnar
04-06-2005, 10:11 PM
UB I consider Travis playing as part of the reason we lost to the Lakers in the finals. When he stoiod there dribbling our season away, then lofted that horrid shot as time ran out, that for me was when the playoffs ended. Had Jax been in I think we would have won that game.

Unclebuck
04-06-2005, 10:21 PM
UB I consider Travis playing as part of the reason we lost to the Lakers in the finals. When he stoiod there dribbling our season away, then lofted that horrid shot as time ran out, that for me was when the playoffs ended. Had Jax been in I think we would have won that game.



If Best's shoulder was not separated he hits that shot 60% of the time. That was a good shot, I had and still have no problem wiht him taking that shot.

Bball
04-06-2005, 11:55 PM
COMING SOON:

ABADays' I have some issues #3: Why do so many hate on Bender?

:lol:

-Bball

BigMac
04-07-2005, 12:40 AM
I am shocked that so many of you don't and didn't like Travis. For the life of me I don't understand it. You all most have been going crazy when he finished games 1998 - 2000. IMO Travis getting hurt was a large factor in the pacers lsing to the Lakers in 2000. Oh well we don't want to go there.

I was a huge Erick Strickland fan. Best defensive guard the Pacers have in the past 20 years. But Isiah ruined him, I just wonder what Rick's calm structured approach could have done with Strick who has always been a bit wild. But man I loved his defense.


Jay, I kinda liked Cook also.

Buck, you're losing credibility with some of your recent statements, especially this one. Gill isn't horrible, he hustles more than most of our ex-point guards, but Strickland just was not that good. If he was so good, then how come he has not stuck with one team for more than a few years (4 with Dallas)? Plus he wasn't well liked by his teammates, he sulked a lot. Best Pacers defensive guard in 20 years? Strickland? Come on. And Cook? It's nice that you liked him but you are basing that on him playing in the pre-season vs. players who, like him, are in the NBDL or the CBA. He was a GREAT High School player but not even an average NBA Player. Not a great college player at St. John's, either.


But as for Strick being the best Pacers defensive guard in 20 years, he has only averaged .84 steals per game for his career. With the Pacers, only .54 steals per game. Granted he didn't play much but if he was so good, any coach would have him on the court more, even Isiah Thomas. But only averaging .84 steals per game for his career doesn't show that he's all that as a defensive guard. Average maybe but the best defensive Pacers guard in 20 years? Here's who I believe was better:

Reggie Miller (yes, that Reggie Miller-not now but in his Prime, well maybe now, too)
Jamaal Tinsley (any day of the week)
Haywoode Workman (Work Horse)
Travis Best (Quick hands, quick feet)
Ron Artest (when he play's the 2-usually against the team's best 2 guard)
Stephen Jackson (some games when he's not flopping on D)
Vern Fleming
Quinn Buckner
Michael Williams
Ricky Green
Tim Hardaway

Erick Strickland's Stats per 48 minutes for the Pacers in the season he played here (2002-2003):

Erick Strickland 71 1275 6.1 14.3 2.3 6.0 2.6 3.3 0.9 4.6 5.5 7.9 1.4 0.3 3.7 4.2 17.2

That is: 1.4 steals per minute. Now, I know that is not the entire defensive side of being a basketball player but it is a very telling statistic. And that just don't cut it. Heck, even in abbreviated time, Tim Hardaway averaged over 3 steals per 48 minutes that he played for the Pacers that SAME year.

TheSauceMaster
04-07-2005, 12:53 AM
Wow , no mention of Mark Jackson :o :censored::censored:

indytoad
04-07-2005, 12:59 AM
Beaten out by the old, hobbled Tim Hardaway? Ouch.

IndyToad
With a large stick

MagicRat
04-07-2005, 01:00 AM
http://home.comcast.net/%7Emagic_rat/images/ronpress.jpg

abington
04-07-2005, 01:53 AM
ive always faulted Bird for not having Mark Jackson in the game for the franchise's most important possesion.

Kegboy
04-07-2005, 01:57 AM
ive always faulted Bird for not having Mark Jackson in the game for the franchise's most important possesion.

Which brings up an important point. For all you Best-haters, why did both Larry's have such a high opinion of him? Rick also supposedly preferred Travis to Mark. Why do you think that is? Maybe it had something to do with selling their souls to Derrick McKey. :devil:

abington
04-07-2005, 02:03 AM
Which brings up an important point. For all you Best-haters, why did both Larry's have such a high opinion of him? Rick also supposedly preferred Travis to Mark. Why do you think that is? Maybe it had something to do with selling their souls to Derrick McKey. :devil:

maybe it was all those points he scored in highschool.