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Lord Helmet
03-19-2005, 06:18 PM
It was all Ron's fault.

Jermaniac
03-19-2005, 06:18 PM
"Steve Francis rides alone, baby"

Jermaniac
03-19-2005, 06:24 PM
Francis will probably get suspended for about 5 games for this, if it was Ron he would have got 15 minimum.

Bball
03-19-2005, 06:26 PM
Francis will probably get suspended for about 5 games for this, if it was Ron he would have got 15 minimum.

If it was Ron he would be banned from the league because from here on out he better have angel wings.

-Bball

Anthem
03-19-2005, 06:27 PM
Head coach fired, best player suspended.

Yeah, they really got the better end of the TMac deal.

Jermaniac
03-19-2005, 06:29 PM
Head coach fired, best player suspended.

Yeah, they really got the better end of the TMac deal. Mobley in Sac-Town.

Anthem
03-19-2005, 06:30 PM
If it was Ron he would be banned from the league because from here on out he better have angel wings.

-Bball

Pre-brawl Ron would have gotten 15 games. I agree, post-brawl Ron would be done forever.

I'm trying to figure out where this stands on the "hierarchy of badness." Going after a paying fan is worse than going after a cameraman, but I doubt the cameraman hit "Franchise" with a drink first. All in all, this might be worse (in my mind, if not in the PR world) because the cameraman didn't start the altercation. Plus, a riot didn't ensue. Still, rest of the season and the playoffs doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

I'd say we're safe from being caught by Orlando.

Peck
03-19-2005, 06:35 PM
Pre-brawl Ron would have gotten 15 games. I agree, post-brawl Ron would be done forever.

I'm trying to figure out where this stands on the "hierarchy of badness." Going after a paying fan is worse than going after a cameraman, but I doubt the cameraman hit "Franchise" with a drink first. All in all, this might be worse (in my mind, if not in the PR world) because the cameraman didn't start the altercation. Plus, a riot didn't ensue. Still, rest of the season and the playoffs doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

I'd say we're safe from being caught by Orlando.

You mean just like the fan that Ron held down with his fist cocked back yelling "Was it you?". Remember, he didn't throw a drink either.

Anthem
03-19-2005, 06:44 PM
You mean just like the fan that Ron held down with his fist cocked back yelling "Was it you?". Remember, he didn't throw a drink either.

I'm not trying to make this about Ron, I'm just saying Ron was clearly provoked (I agree he shouldn't have done anything, but he was provoked) and Franchise clearly wasn't.

Feeling argumentative today, Peck?

SycamoreKen
03-19-2005, 06:47 PM
Head coach fired, best player suspended.

Yeah, they really got the better end of the TMac deal.

I think the Mobley deal was the bad one. After hearing T-Mac the other night it was obvious they had to get rid of him.

Dr Huxtable
03-19-2005, 06:58 PM
Why did he kick him?

Peck
03-19-2005, 07:13 PM
I'm not trying to make this about Ron, I'm just saying Ron was clearly provoked (I agree he shouldn't have done anything, but he was provoked) and Franchise clearly wasn't.

Feeling argumentative today, Peck?

Not really, but I think since everybody (rightfully so btw) gets upset when someone talks about how Ron & Jax went into the stand swinging, which they didn't, then I think we should try & maintain the high standard & not say that Ron went after the guy who threw a drink at him.

It's no big deal really, I just thought I'd interject it. :cool:

DEEman
03-19-2005, 07:14 PM
Why did he kick him?
I just wanted to aks the same question

Did anyone see it happen?

fooddaman
03-19-2005, 07:21 PM
This is from Espn wire services...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=2017257

Saturday, March 19, 2005

SportsTicker

NEW YORK - The reeling Orlando Magic will be without star point guard Steve Francis, who was suspended indefinitely Saturday by the NBA for kicking a photographer.

The incident occurred with 8:57 remaining in Friday's 99-90 loss at Seattle, Orlando's season-high seventh straight setback.

Francis, who leads the Magic in scoring and assists and is among the league leaders in technical fouls, is suspended without pay while the NBA investigates the incident. He will sit out Saturday night's game at Portland.

Former NBA bad boy Dennis Rodman was suspended 11 games for kicking a cameraman in 1997.

Francis picked up his 19th technical foul in Tuesday's loss at Sacramento, two nights after getting ejected from a home loss to New Jersey. His frustration has become evident during the current slide, which has dropped the Magic out of the Eastern Conference playoff picture.

In his sixth season and first with the Magic, Francis is averaging 21.4 points, 6.9 assists and 5.9 rebounds. The point guard likely will be replaced in the starting lineup by rookie Jameer Nelson.

It has been a tumultuous week for the Magic. On Tuesday, forward Stacey Augmon was suspended one game by the NBA for squirting lotion on reporters after Sunday's loss and guard DeShawn Stevenson was fined $7,500 for kicking the all into the stands after the same game.

The Magic dropped the first two games of their five-game road trip, leading to the firing of coach Johnny Davis early Thursday morning. He was replaced by assistant Chris Jent.

This story is from ESPN.com's automated news wire. Wire index

Ragnar
03-19-2005, 07:30 PM
While it is true Ron went after the wrong fan it is important to not he did not hit that fan. He was yelling at him but he did not hit him.

fooddaman
03-19-2005, 07:31 PM
A little more info on the incident...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2017291

Updated: Mar. 19, 2005, 7:20 PM ET
Precedent: Rodman suspended 11 games in '97
Associated Press

NEW YORK -- Orlando Magic guard Steve Francis was suspended indefinitely by the NBA on Saturday for kicking a courtside photographer in the fourth quarter of the Magic's loss in Seattle on Friday night.

The NBA will investigate further before determining the length of the suspension. Former Chicago Bulls star Dennis Rodman was suspended for 11 games and fined $25,000 for kicking a courtside cameraman on Jan. 17, 1997.

Francis, who had 19 points for the Magic, denied kicking the man.

"He threw my legs down, man. That was it," Francis said Friday night. "No. Uh, uh. I don't know what happened."

The Magic played at Portland on Saturday night.

skyfire
03-19-2005, 07:32 PM
This could kick start the Magic into playing well, in a CWebb injury for Sacto type way. As talented as Francis is I hate the way he plays the game.

Orlando have seemed to get royaly screwed out of this Tmac deal tho, I would have kept Mobley and traded Francis on to whoever wanted him.

Hoop
03-19-2005, 07:38 PM
Back in the day, Mad Max got 10 games for punching a fan. Mad Max had long record of past bad behavior.
Present day, Ron gets 70+. Ron had long record of past behavior.

Back in the day, Rodman got 11 games for kicking a camera man. Rodman had long record of past bad behavior.
Present day, Francis gets __ ?. Francis has history of bad behavior.

Peck
03-19-2005, 07:38 PM
While it is true Ron went after the wrong fan it is important to not he did not hit that fan. He was yelling at him but he did not hit him.

Hence, why I said "You mean just like the fan that Ron held down with his fist cocked back yelling "Was it you?". "

I made it a point to not say he hit him.

Kegboy
03-19-2005, 07:39 PM
Not really, but I think since everybody (rightfully so btw) gets upset when someone talks about how Ron & Jax went into the stand swinging, which they didn't, then I think we should try & maintain the high standard & not say that Ron went after the guy who threw a drink at him.

It's no big deal really, I just thought I'd interject it. :cool:

Yeah, but he did go after the one in the general vicinity that was laughing and pointing. Not to mention the one that the real culprit pushed Ron into.

Bball
03-19-2005, 07:49 PM
Somebody please refresh my memory about what happened when Reggie had his run-in with a camera (and cameraman) under the basket.

I'm thinking he took a swipe at the camera but I just don't remember the 'exacts' of it all these years later.

I do remember he was injured to some degree from it.

Bball
...Not that this has anything to do with Stevie Franchise...

SoupIsGood
03-19-2005, 07:53 PM
This could kick start the Magic into playing well, in a CWebb injury for Sacto type way. As talented as Francis is I hate the way he plays the game.

Orlando have seemed to get royaly screwed out of this Tmac deal tho, I would have kept Mobley and traded Francis on to whoever wanted him.

:lolchair:

Destined4Greatness
03-19-2005, 08:02 PM
My guess, he misses the rest of the season, and they don't make the playoffs.

A-Train
03-19-2005, 08:17 PM
Former NBA bad boy Dennis Rodman was suspended 11 games for kicking a cameraman in 1997.



That's the answer to the question I had.

able
03-19-2005, 08:34 PM
Weel let's follow Hoop's reasoning and that of "legal precedent" then you can make the following deduction:

1995 Vernon Maxwell; fighting in the stands with a fan, (Hitting that fan) 10 games
2005 Ron Artest; fighting in the stands, (NOT hitting a fan) 73 games (+)

Considering A. that Ron did not hit the guy and B that there are a number of playoff games to consider as well we can say that the weighing of the two results in:
10 v 73+11= 84 Hitting a fan is worse so therefore weighing in at 110% and as a result the penalty increased by 1000 % i.e. 100% per year.

1997 Dennis Rodman; kicking a cameraman 11 games
2005 Steve Francis; kicking a cameraman 11 * 8 = 88 games


So in accordance with Stern's own rules (yes Franchise's history is almost as bad as the one Rodman or Artest had) Steve is out for next season.

Anything less is commonly described as "biased"

Stern will be happy, if he does less, he is in the wrong with the Artest suspension and will at least get half the world on his case, if he does more the owners will lynch him, if he does the same the owners will still want to reel in his power and definitely the PU will want a 3d party appeal set up on suspensions in general.

Chances something like this would happen were small, but I am sure Stern would have dearly wanted for it not to happen, in which case he would never have been second guessed, now it's gonna happen in the same season, this could be getting very interesting :)

Bball
03-19-2005, 08:51 PM
Stevie Franchise has a history comparable to Rodman and Artest?

"... Franchise's history is almost as bad as the one Rodman or Artest had"

I think that is a stretch.

-Bball

shags
03-20-2005, 12:02 AM
Stevie Franchise has a history comparable to Rodman and Artest?

"... Franchise's history is almost as bad as the one Rodman or Artest had"

I think that is a stretch.

-Bball

I'm perplexed by this. What is Steve Francis' past history? I mean, I know he's a ballhog and a poor teammate, along with one of the most overrated players in the game, but what has he done that is even comparable to Rodman or Artest. Can someone give me a list? I can't think of anything off the top of my head, although it apparently looks like he's gotten plenty of technicals.

Kstat
03-20-2005, 12:06 AM
other than skipping a couple of team flights, I can't think of anything.

BTW, Francis is saying he was framed, and the guy "pulled his foot into himself." :laugh:

shags
03-20-2005, 12:13 AM
other than skipping a couple of team flights, I can't think of anything.


Yeah, that and pouting his way out of Vancouver after they drafted him. I can't think of anything else either.

Hopefully some Pacer fans will shed some light on this. I'm just stunned by that statement.

Kstat
03-20-2005, 12:15 AM
I don't think holding out for a trade after he was drafted counts as an on-court problem, though.

Remember the Pistons had a Stackhouse-for-Francis swap until the Pistons backed out, and Francis eventually went to Houston.

shags
03-20-2005, 12:27 AM
I don't think holding out for a trade after he was drafted counts as an on-court problem, though.

Remember the Pistons had a Stackhouse-for-Francis swap until the Pistons backed out, and Francis eventually went to Houston.

Cut me some slack here. I'm trying to find anything. There's got to be something we're missing. I never thought his on-court "problems" were any worse than Stephon Marbury's.

Oh, and on a sidenote, he's on my fantasy team. :dance: :rockon:

Bball
03-20-2005, 12:44 AM
Yeah, that and pouting his way out of Vancouver after they drafted him. I can't think of anything else either.

Hopefully some Pacer fans will shed some light on this. I'm just stunned by that statement.

FWIW-
Able said it, not me... I was just quoting him and wondering (asking) about that statement myself.

-Bball

Kstat
03-20-2005, 12:48 AM
Well, you have to understand, able's studying law. Furthemore, he's declared himself Ronnie's personal Attourney. So like any good lawyer, he's going to say some things that are, um, "out there", simply for the shock value. So take it with a grain of salt.

But if he starts saying "if the glove does not fit, you must aquit," we need to get him some help........

Bball
03-20-2005, 01:22 AM
Well, you have to understand, able's studying law. Furthemore, he's declared himself Ronnie's personal Attourney. So like any good lawyer, he's going to say some things that are, um, "out there", simply for the shock value. So take it with a grain of salt.

But if he starts saying "if the glove does not fit, you must aquit," we need to get him some help........

He's advising Ron to have another meeting with Stern... and show up in his pajamas.

-Bball

shags
03-20-2005, 10:00 AM
FWIW-
Able said it, not me... I was just quoting him and wondering (asking) about that statement myself.

-Bball

You're right. And you did say it was a stretch. Sorry for the confusion.

able
03-20-2005, 10:09 AM
1. Hoop was the first one to state it
2. the amount of T's his general behaviour and yes holding out is worse the "on court behaviour" in my eyes lead me to support that statement.

3. Youy should know by now that I am opposed firmly against this "previous behaviour" concerns, as once they are punished, they are "paid in full" there is even a saying, "he's paid his debt to society" to bring it up in next measurement is saying that he hasn't.

4. In order to have a discussion on the possible content of the punishment and the relation to earlier punishments handed out this is a very interesting case, it would be better to concentrate on that instead of the semantics on whether the glove was a well behaved litttle choirboy or not.

_PD_
03-20-2005, 12:10 PM
Stevie, besides being a general whiner and self-centered player, which btw doesn't in itself result in suspensions, but nevertheless makes you a pain in the asp, has been suspended by the team for missing a plane, suspended by the nba for cursing on tv (assault on officiating) and for squirting lotion.

Rodman, a person I cannot stand, was I believe overly punished because he was a free spirit and needed attention and was a spectacle that needed some reining in.

For the lawyers out there, I don't disagree with the premise that you do your crime and do your time and it's over. Except for martha stewart, ex-cons get a rough shake when they get out. However, we do have statutes that deal with habitual criminals. We also have sentencing guidelines that take previous convictions into account. You would expect, but not always be satisfied, that a person who had 10 DUIs would get a stiffer sentence than someone who had 1. I don't see why the nba should operate any differently.

grace
03-20-2005, 12:43 PM
Rodman, a person I cannot stand, was I believe overly punished because he was a free spirit and needed attention and was a spectacle that needed some reining in.

If you asked the photog who got his balls smashed by Rodman I would assume he'd say Rodman wasn't overly punished.

dannyboy
03-20-2005, 12:46 PM
Stevie, besides being a general whiner and self-centered player, which btw doesn't in itself result in suspensions, but nevertheless makes you a pain in the asp, has been suspended by the team for missing a plane, suspended by the nba for cursing on tv (assault on officiating) and for squirting lotion.

That about sums it up. Rockets fans were finally fed up with him when he and Jeff Van Gundy supposedly had an argument in the Reliant Stadium parking lot the day of the Superbowl. Steve wanted to stay and watch the game in person and take a private plane to Phoenix later that night instead of leaving with the team. Van Gundy told Steve if he's part of the team he better be on the plane, and eventually just told him not to bother to come at all and suspended him for the game (Steve later denied that this encounter took place, then later backed off his denial).

The only guy that the fans seemed to miss at the time of the T-Mac trade was Cuttino, but T-Mac was an upgrade over him anyway. They were mainly glad to be rid of Steve and Cato, who had reached Croshere-like status; a decent player that was given an absurd contract by the team and had become a target for criticism.

grace
03-20-2005, 12:59 PM
I choose to remember Stevie dancing with the Pacemates. Instead of suspending him outright maybe they'll let him be one of Orlando's dancers. Do they even have them?

_PD_
03-20-2005, 02:47 PM
If you asked the photog who got his balls smashed by Rodman I would assume he'd say Rodman wasn't overly punished.
Good point, Grace. My reasoning is that he was punished not just for what he did or said, but also for how he acted in a flamboyant manner, i.e. a guy with green hair one day and striped hair the next and a nipple ring is likely to get stiffer punishment than just a generic whiner like Steve Francis.

He was fined by the nba and sued by the photog, but did he get any suspension? If not, then he was slapped on the wrist and I retract, although it seems to me in the nba these days there is more general whining and "I'm a star" attitudes than then.

grace
03-20-2005, 06:35 PM
.
He was fined by the nba and sued by the photog, but did he get any suspension?

I think he got 11 games.

penbert66
03-21-2005, 04:43 PM
espn radio just reported 3 games