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View Full Version : If you believe in the +/- thing



Peck
03-16-2005, 01:16 PM
then Dale Davis has really been a rock in the games he has played in. I don't know how much I actually believe in that stat. but I do think that it's just obvious that the team is better when Dale plays than when he doesn't.

PLAYER GAMES MINUTES PLUS-
MINUS PER
48 MINS. PER
GAME LAST
GAME
Dale Davis 5 148 36 11.7 7.2 +6
Jeff Foster 41 1,133 144 6.1 3.5 -12
Reggie Miller 46 1,484 123 4.0 2.7 -1
Jamaal Tinsley 40 1,301 105 3.9 2.6 DNP
Scot Pollard 31 586 30 2.5 1.0 +2
Stephen Jackson 31 1,092 5 0.2 0.2 -18
James Jones 55 1,007 -1 -0.0 -0.0 0
David Harrison 43 760 -18 -1.1 -0.4 DNP
Team Average 62 3,011 -32 -0.5 -0.5 -12
Eddie Gill 53 729 -90 -5.9 -1.7 -9
Anthony Johnson 44 1,095 -86 -3.8 -2.0 -3
Austin Croshere 54 1,389 -109 -3.8 -2.0 -16
Fred Jones 60 1,873 -123 -3.2 -2.1 -9

pb777
03-16-2005, 01:19 PM
Yeah I saw that too. He has very impressive +/- numbers.

Ragnar
03-16-2005, 01:25 PM
I would love to see how he plays with Jamaal being able to get the ball to him in a position to score. I do believe in it to an extent. Clearly it can be screwed by playing with other players. For example Freddie does not have a good +/- but I think that is more due to playing with AJ most of the time.

ChicagoJ
03-16-2005, 01:43 PM
I like the five-man version much better than the individual numbers, but I've noticed the same thing about Dale even without looking at the plus/ minus. His physical presence at both ends of the court is making life easier on the little guys like SJax and Reggie, and that's when we've played our best ball lately.

But that's why I've been begging for minutes from Harrison. Its not Harrison's individual game (scoring, rebounding) that I care about. Rather, its his ability to force teams to play us 'honest'/ straight-up. I'm really hoping Dale is a tremendous influence on David - that's the biggest contribution Dale can make at this stage.

Los Angeles
03-16-2005, 02:07 PM
I'd love to see the 5-man chart. Does it exist anywhere on the web? Though with all of our linups, it's probably the size of a novel right now.

I think plus-minus stats are an attempt to quantify the unquantifiable. If all you do is set monster picks and block out opponents so that your teammates can get easy rebounds, there's no real statistic that shows your worth.

Unfortunately, because plus-minus only looks at point differential, it is subject to inaccuracy. Here's a simple example: If you are being a monster teammate, doing all the "little things" that get your team the ball and then get them open, but at the same time, your guys are missing wide-open shots, you'll likely have a negative plus-minus. And it won't be your fault. So right there, you see that unlike other stats, your numbers don't reflect your achievement level all that accurately.

Now imagine this: Opposing teams can set a watch by your rotations. You always come in with John Edwards and you always leave the game at the same time. He stinks up the place. Because the coaching is so inflexible, YOUR plus-minus goes down.

Now back to Dale, I don't think anyone can deny that he's playing tough, and I also don't think anyone can deny that we haven't seen this version of Dale in a few years. I'm glad he's here, especially after all this team is going through.

But he comes and goes with our top scorers, which distorts the numbers in his favor. He also has a much smaller number of games to get a reliable statistic from, so I think it's premature to bring out this stat.

Kegboy
03-16-2005, 02:38 PM
I'd love to see the 5-man chart.

http://www.82games.com/0405IND2.HTM

Hicks
03-16-2005, 02:41 PM
I'd love to see the 5-man chart. Does it exist anywhere on the web? Though with all of our linups, it's probably the size of a novel right now.

http://www.82games.com/0405IND.HTM

Kegboy
03-16-2005, 02:45 PM
Of course, it's also worth noting that, over the last month, Foster has the 4th highest +/- in the league, when you factor in on-court and off-court performance.

http://www.82games.com/onoff30.htm

Los Angeles
03-16-2005, 02:57 PM
Thanks!

Wow, it's hard to find a 5-man group on that list that's actually available to us right now.

kerosene
03-17-2005, 03:19 AM
I'm good with the 5-man plus/minus. Individual +/- can often be more of a reflection of who else is in the rotation a player generally plays in and isn't very accurate because that isn't taken into account. It's more difficult to keep track of and the adjusted ones are even more difficult but I think those versions of the stat more accurately reflect what happens on the court. The 82games.com folks rule.