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View Full Version : Why is Harrison not even mentioned as an inside option?



McKeyFan
03-08-2005, 11:46 AM
In today's star, Wells gives the following two comments regarding our need for inside offense:

The Pacers will be without O'Neal for at least the next three games as his shoulder heals. His absence leaves Scot Pollard, Dale Davis and Jeff Foster as the primary frontcourt players.
There's a catch, though: None is considered an offensive force near the basket, which explains why coach Rick Carlisle is relying heavily on perimeter players to carry the offense.

And one more:

Carlisle said they need some type of inside presence to be effective.
"We're going to have to be more selective and we're going to have to find some way to get the ball inside," he said.


My question: where is Harrison in this discussion? He's not even mentioned! Why? This is becoming a bit of a concern for me. Maybe there's more to it than what we know. Any ideas? I'll list a few options below that come to my mind:

1. He's not in good enough condition
2. He's a rookie. Too many mistakes.
3. His lack of conditioning is only symptomatic of a bigger problem of lack of work ethic in learning the system, studying opponents, not being serious enough, etc.
4. His decent offense is overshadowed by poor rebounding and defense.

indygeezer
03-08-2005, 12:15 PM
In today's star, Wells gives the following two comments regarding our need for inside offense:

The Pacers will be without O'Neal for at least the next three games as his shoulder heals. His absence leaves Scot Pollard, Dale Davis and Jeff Foster as the primary frontcourt players.
There's a catch, though: None is considered an offensive force near the basket, which explains why coach Rick Carlisle is relying heavily on perimeter players to carry the offense.

And one more:

Carlisle said they need some type of inside presence to be effective.
"We're going to have to be more selective and we're going to have to find some way to get the ball inside," he said.


My question: where is Harrison in this discussion? He's not even mentioned! Why? This is becoming a bit of a concern for me. Maybe there's more to it than what we know. Any ideas? I'll list a few options below that come to my mind:

1. He's not in good enough condition
2. He's a rookie. Too many mistakes.
3. His lack of conditioning is only symptomatic of a bigger problem of lack of work ethic in learning the system, studying opponents, not being serious enough, etc.
4. His decent offense is overshadowed by poor rebounding and defense.


how about
5. DD is now on the scene and rather than play a rook, RC will go with the vet everytime. Especially a vet that plays defense and rebounds. THerefore David becomes the oddman out.

able
03-08-2005, 12:18 PM
RC has never been a rook man, he will never be, never become.

The "Curry" episode has shown that more then prolific.

Hulk however will make his mark all by himself.

Unclebuck
03-08-2005, 12:28 PM
I like DH, he's going tio be a very good player. But he seems to have gained a little weight since his concussion, and he really does not deserve to play over even Scot Pollard.

He has learned quite a bit this season, he needs to have a great summer of work, get into etter condition and then be ready for next year

beast23
03-08-2005, 12:45 PM
An article either this morning or yesterday morning pointed to the fact that we are actually scoring nearly two ponts per game more than last season, but that we are giving up nearly eight points more than last season.

Yet, all you hear anyone say is that we are not winning as much because we can't score the ball.

IMO, that's a bunch of crap. Our offense isn't pretty by any means, but the end result is still more points per game. We are getting beat because we have not been able to maintain anywhere near the margin that we achieved last season.

And I think that's where Davis comes in. We need to stiffen up our defense, and not allow as many second chance opportunities and as many points in the paint as we have been allowing. Davis will get the nod over Harrison, and probably Foster, Pollard and Croshere as well. Even after JO is playing again.

It is not a question of not playing a rookie, or Harrison's conditioning, attitude or anything else regarding him as a player. It's a matter of playing the best defender/rebounder available.

The most positive thing I see about it is that Harrison, and even Jermaine, will hopefully pick up some of Dale's good habits. Because Davis is just as fundamentally sound in his rebounding as Foster is. If Harrison is smart enough to realize why Dale has been able to immediately start upon joining the team, then I think that's a good thing for both Harrison and the Pacers.

As far as offense around the basket, I think that will improve with better chemistry between Davis and his new teammates.

If we do happen to get Artest back this season, because of Dale's presence with Artest and Jermaine, I think we'll also a marked increase in the number of perimeter jump shots being taken by our opponents.

You put SJax at SG and Freddie at the point (depending on Tinsley's availability), along with Artest, Dale and Jermaine, and that is one hellacious lineup, especially at the defensive end. And if Artest does come back, as long as the Pacers can achieve anything resembling chemistry, I believe we would be extremely competitive with any other lineup in the league.

Skaut_Ech
03-08-2005, 12:49 PM
In today's star, Wells gives the following two comments regarding our need for inside offense:

The Pacers will be without O'Neal for at least the next three games as his shoulder heals. His absence leaves Scot Pollard, Dale Davis and Jeff Foster as the primary frontcourt players.
There's a catch, though: None is considered an offensive force near the basket, which explains why coach Rick Carlisle is relying heavily on perimeter players to carry the offense.

And one more:

Carlisle said they need some type of inside presence to be effective.
"We're going to have to be more selective and we're going to have to find some way to get the ball inside," he said.


My question: where is Harrison in this discussion? He's not even mentioned! Why? This is becoming a bit of a concern for me. Maybe there's more to it than what we know. Any ideas? I'll list a few options below that come to my mind:

1. He's not in good enough condition
2. He's a rookie. Too many mistakes.
3. His lack of conditioning is only symptomatic of a bigger problem of lack of work ethic in learning the system, studying opponents, not being serious enough, etc.
4. His decent offense is overshadowed by poor rebounding and defense.

Hmmmm..hadn't read that article. McKeyfan, It makes me wonder, too. Of course, number 3 comes to mind immediately. You would THINK Harrison would consider this a chance to showcase himself. The whole first impressions thing. If he establishes himself as a worker, hitting the gym hard and making himself into a specimen, that rep would go a long way towards giving him PT, for this year and the next. Not saying it's true, but that's a good theory.

A deadset rotation of DD, Scot and Jeff gives us a whole lot of the same thing: offensively challenged guys whose only strength is rebounding and putbacks. That can work if they can dominate. Unfortunately we are dead last in the NBa is team rebounding. Dead. Last. :eyebrow2: We'e also ranked third to last in scoring. Something''s got to give.

Do you go for relative steadiness with those guys, or do you throw in the wild card with room for growth in both categories with Harrison? :plot:

You would think that he'd want to give Harrison a better foundation for the future by playing him.

So then, it comes back to number 3. That seems a viable, and possibly disappointing reason. Could it be THE reason?


It seems Carlisle is using the model in seattle for how to run this team. I don't think we have the inside strength to do it.

ChicagoJ
03-08-2005, 01:00 PM
I keep wondering about this...

I mean, we all heard the rumors when the Pacers drafted him.

He seemed to be intent on proving them wrong early in the season.

He hasn't been the same since the concussion. But his minutes have been so limited that I can't pinpoint it; and maybe that's the point. Maybe Rick knows he's not in NBA-shape. But I still believe the best way to show him what "NBA-shape" means is to put him out there for a couple weeks at 20+ mpg so he gets the feel of just how much he needs to improve.

We're already dead last in rebounding with those so-called rebounding specialists. I don't see how playing Harrison is going to hurt.

Mourning
03-08-2005, 01:31 PM
I think the problem lies in the fact that he makes too many fouls or, depending on your interpretation, gets whistled for too many fouls. Either way, that is certainly limiting his time on the court.

I would say your option 2 fits the bill here and he will be much better next year IF he does the same this summer as he did the previous one, which is work hard and disciplined and learn. The only thing then is that its out of his hands to determine if he will play or not, that's Carlisle's job. And that is also about the only problem I have with Rick, let's hope he proves me wrong here, like he did with Curry.

Almost every team has scored more this season. I think it has to do with the stricter calling of fouls at the perimeter by the referees (which I think is good).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

McKeyFan
03-08-2005, 05:14 PM
Here's the reason why:

He's not an inside option. Even on a team that has only a marginal chance of just making the playoffs. Could he be someday? Sure. But he's not close yet.

Well, that's a good theory that would explain everything.

However, just personally, I'd like to see him be given a game or two to try. I've seen him make some nice offensive moves. I've seen him make some nice passes in the post. I've also seen him screw up a lot.

But the point of this thread is that JO is out, and we probably have no offensive chance to win (or barely) without somebody somewhere to throw it to inside who JUST MIGHT make some shots and who just might be able to throw it back out to the perimeter for some uncontested shots.

I agree...it's a long shot. But it may be the only shot we have the next few games. I'd like to see Rick take a chance and give Hulk the opportunity.

MagicRat
03-08-2005, 05:23 PM
When he came into the LA game, Mark and Slick commented how he didn't make a good showing in the previous game, including almost losing his shorts. Apparently somebody on the team had to talk to him about tying his pants.

"Can you imagine having to tell someone to tie their shorts?" - Boyle

Maybe now that he doesn't have to worry about his pants falling down he'll be able to contribute on a more consistent basis........

ChicagoJ
03-08-2005, 05:23 PM
True. The longer we hang around the eighth spot, the worse the situation gets for Harrison (at least in terms of getting meaningful minutes this season).

Kegboy
03-08-2005, 10:22 PM
I keep wondering about this...

I mean, we all heard the rumors when the Pacers drafted him.

He seemed to be intent on proving them wrong early in the season.

He hasn't been the same since the concussion. But his minutes have been so limited that I can't pinpoint it; and maybe that's the point. Maybe Rick knows he's not in NBA-shape. But I still believe the best way to show him what "NBA-shape" means is to put him out there for a couple weeks at 20+ mpg so he gets the feel of just how much he needs to improve.

We're already dead last in rebounding with those so-called rebounding specialists. I don't see how playing Harrison is going to hurt.

I wouldn't read that much into it. We all knew he was gonna hit the rookie wall, sooner or later. Little did we know the wall would be Dantay Jones' elbow.

brichard
03-09-2005, 07:31 AM
I agree with most of what has been said. I'd like to see Harrison play more, particularly in the absence of JO, just so we have somebody with touch under the basket on "O." But, Rick is a veteran guy. He has had better luck with veterans, and since we are late in the season I don't see things changing.

indygeezer
03-09-2005, 08:32 AM
2 fouls in 24 seconds last night. Kinda answers some of the question, huh?

Coach
03-09-2005, 09:39 AM
I keep reading everyones post on how we are dead last in the league in rebounding. Is that a recent trend? I could care less how we have been over the season. You have to remember that we went a good stretch of games without JO, Jax, Foster...
We will always be near the bottom because of the hole that was dug in the rebounding department during that time. I would like to know how we compare with the rest of the league over only the last X number of games that we have had most of our team. If someone gets that info and we are still near the bottom of the league when we have had JO, Scott, Foster, Jax...and even Dale. How do we compare in the games that we have had some semblence(sp?) of a team?

grace
03-09-2005, 09:53 AM
2 fouls in 24 seconds last night. Kinda answers some of the question, huh?

:nod: He's taken Al's place as the foul magnet.

Unclebuck
03-09-2005, 09:56 AM
Pacers are not dead last in rebounding, the stat the media uses is not an accurate stat

ABADays
03-09-2005, 10:48 AM
2 fouls in 24 seconds last night. Kinda answers some of the question, huh?

Jackson did the same thing though, Geezer.

Suaveness
03-09-2005, 11:48 AM
Jackson did the same thing though, Geezer.

True, but Harrison does it more often :flirt:

sixthman
03-09-2005, 11:52 AM
When JO comes back, playing time gets even tighter for all the bigs.

As was said above, Harrison is not playing because the other guys are better defenders and rebounders. There is no rush to bring Harrison along as Davis and Foster now deserve most of the minutes.

As long as there is a chance to do damage in the playoffs, you go with the guys who can win now.

I'm not throwing in the towel until the fat lady sings. If JO and Tinsley are both healthy for the playoffs, this team will be dangerous.

tseramid
03-10-2005, 02:09 AM
Harrison has learned for more this season than he could imagine. This will help him in the offseason as he will devote full time with working on his body and his footwork. As of now, he is making all kinds of mistakes that bigs always get called for fouls (sometimes mysteriously). It's a technique issue for him right now, something he clearly did not learn in college.

I think he will be a fine center, but he cannot stay on the floor right now. DD, Croshere, Foster and Pollard are playing better anyways, so it is really an easy option..

Roy Munson
03-10-2005, 11:45 AM
I wouldn't read that much into it. We all knew he was gonna hit the rookie wall, sooner or later. Little did we know the wall would be Dantay Jones' elbow.

Agreed. He has hit the wall, both mentally and physically. He's probably about done for this season and it's unlikely he'll get many minutes from here on out. He needs to take a little time off, then come back to the summer camps/leagues and really work hard to improve. I'm sure that's what the Ps are telling him.

I imagine he'll turn out to be a good player as long as his attitude stays good.